Yachts vs powerboats

[Kevin]

It might just be where and what I have been looking at recently at the various boat shows here and abroad but Yachts seem to be extremely good value next to their power equivelents.

Off the top of my head I cant remember specifics but have come across used yachts of about 55 feet or so with three cabins two / three bathrooms and interiors that shame their powered rivals for the cost of engined craft that are about 1/2 their length. Even taking into consideration the cost of two huge diesels on powered craft, I allowed about £50,000 for the two, the yachts come in at a much better price for much more boat.

Not fully sure on why this would be, considering the yachts have all the 'rag' bits and bobs to include. I have no experience of sailing whatsoever but Im gathering it must be far more invloved to use a yacht and possibly need more crew when underway, although there must be systems and automated devices available for 'lone' sailors to be able to use their craft, so I cant believe practicality can alter value much.

I began to think of the construction needed for power craft when talking about 2/3/400 hp engines, but Ive always looked at yachts as bomb proof for the conditions they are intended to be used for, so no reason why power boats would cost more to build.

Be interested to know what anybody else thinks on this, must stress havent looked into this in huge detail but on the surface the above seemed to be so.

Will this post get hoots of derision due to it being almost a 'pro' raggie post?

Kevin


<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[BarryH]

Its crossed my mind once or twice. Earlier in the year I was looking at changing the boat. As you say, you seem to get a hell of a lot more boat for your money going for a rag boat.
If anyting, I'd say that a rag boat would need a lot more input from the designer. The stresses on the hull etc are quiet complex. Taking into account of the loadings from the rigging, mast and the like. And they've still got an engine and all the associated systems as well.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Its not only the engines, its all the paraphanalia that surrounds the engines as well, the much larger fuel tanks, shafts, props, support bearers etc. Then I believe that motor boats, particularly planing boats are more heavily constructed because of the much greater stresses that the hull has to endure so either the lay up is heavier or the framing is stronger
Anyway, I believe the comparison depends on the sail boats you choose. Certainly Bav/Ben/Jen yachts are much cheaper length for length than the average motor boat but, then, raggies view them in the same way as mobo people view Binliners. A fair comparison would be between a Moody and a Princess, 'coz they're made by the same yard, and I dont think there's such a huge difference between their respective lengths

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Birdseye]

A very fair point. I can see no reason why a motorboat built by Marine Projects should be more highly priced than a sailing boat built by them. Ditto for Beneteau. So to my mind, the price difference probably reflects the cost difference, and is absolutely nothing to do with Stinkies being Harry Enfield loads-a-money types, and Raggies being impoverished middle class types - which is what we all suspected. /forums/images/icons/shocked.gif

But why do engines cost so much? When you can get a basic car with all the bits they have these days, for £7k, why does even a small engine cost £5k and a big one megabucks. Particularly since often they are the same basic motor.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Marine diesel engines are much larger than car engines, typically in the 4 to 12 litre capacity range and the builders will say that there is an extra cost for marinisation. A fairer comparison would be with truck or construction plant engines and from personal experience in the latter, I can say that engine costs are similar to marine engines for the same block

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[kingfisher]

Supply vs demand

Demand for Mobo's is higher:
Your average MoBo wins the lottery, goes to the dealer, points out the one they want, and 'drive' off with the boat.

Raggies are far more intelligent, educated and price-aware (do NOT confuse this with 'cheap') than the going-on-forty, short-shaven-cause-balding, gold-chain, funny shirt-lot

BTW: MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR

<hr width=100% size=1>Group of people on the pontoon: skipper is the one with the toolbox.
http://sirocco31.tripod.com

 

[PGD]

Re: Supply vs demand

Tar and brush come mind here/forums/images/icons/frown.gif got my boat through hard work nothing else.

Not got to 40 yet, still have hair and don't wear funny shirts either.

Peter

<hr width=100% size=1>Complete the Consumer Survey <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.mssa.org.uk>http://www.mssa.org.uk</A> Marine Service Standards Assistance

 

[Oldhand]

Bathrooms on yachts? I hope they don't use the bath while sailing!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Kevin]

Not sure what they would call them. I undertsand what you mean a bath would be rather impractical but it does give the indication to how well equpped and the granduer in which the 'head compartment' was carried out, rather than an all plastic cupboard with a hole for doing your 'business'

Kevin

 

[robp]

But throw into the equation the success we have with Motor Boat building in the UK? It's far more consistent than with Sail.

Surely there's just some degree of Sailors' passion as against Motor Boaters' expendable income? Not all I know, but it must help.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[jimi]

But is that not due to the special position of the UK with red diesel?

<hr width=100% size=1>.. when's that again, but ..

 

[robp]

Well I'm assuming that Sunseeker, Fairline, Sealine, Princess et al, have a good export market too. Certainly Johnny Foreigner I've spoken to all know them well!

Does seem to me that newly available cash is pointed toward motors before sail. That's not in any way a criticism, just an observation.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[penfold]

Um, probably not, but I've certainly encountered one; on a 60'ish Milne ketch called Glen Afton. Don't know whether they actually use it or not, tho', underway or otherwise.

cheers,
david

<hr width=100% size=1>I employed you people to get a little railroad laid, not to dance around like Kansas City faggots!

 

[tcm]

i agree with Deleted User regarding durabilty. However, i shd also say that I think that with the larger manufacturers they are finding ways of doing things more ansd more cheaply on a raggie boat. And they do.

Instead of big reinforcing relief (stringers etc) that you can see on the insuide hull of big powerboats, modern sailing boat have a simple frame of marine ply to reinforce an otherwise eggshell hull design. The same on everything to at least 50 feet, or more. That's just the start.

All the gear on raggie booats is cheap as chips. Use any example - the bilge pumps are a joke, the taps pathetic, the galley more stone age than modern camping gear, and the loos and showers pretty much unuseable - hence all raggies trudge off to the shower block every moring regardless of the weather. Add in the upholstery piched from a 1970's school bus, and it's not hard to see why most swmbos love powerboats, and raggies wonder why they are often sailing alone.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[starboard]

But what do you pay for your fuel per ltr?? I think mine is free...and sweeter smelling, and a bath too...just fill up the cockpit with water and wallow in the scud...not a sole in sight for miles around, guess you couldnt do that on the Solent!!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[MainlySteam]

My experience is mostly with larger custom designed/built boats but I would not have thought that there would be a lot of difference in cost between building a similar sized and quality pleasure sized sailboat and a moboat. However, the two boat types are presented to two almost entirely different markets and I would stick my neck out (quite safely I think) in saying that purchasers of mobos, especially faster high powered ones, create a market which allows the builder to obtain a larger premium over his build costs.

The rig versus engine costs are often quoted as perhaps being different for smaller vessels (up to 70 foot say) but as an example the smallest engines I am involved with at the moment are 700 hp high quality commercially rated marine diesels and each one of those costs less (including delivery cost to Australia from Europe) than the rig and auxiliary engine of my own 40 foot yacht (custom build) cost way back in 1996.

John

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Kevin]

I have to tend to agree with you.

My feeling is that yes motorboats have stresses that yachts maybe dont have with regard engines, speeds etc. but yachts have to my mind equal but different forces regarding masts, sail area, wind speeds etc which must exert huge pressures on the design and build of the boat, that must be as costly to design and build as motorboats.

I personally think that the price difference has more to do with what manufacturers feel that they can get away with, motorboats being more fashionable and aimed at high earners and so i think that the manufacturers pick up on this and price accordingly.

With regard the post that outlined the cabin /living quality of yachts being poor to my mind the bigger 50 foot or so yachts are far better equipped and more stylish than the motorboating equivelents.

Kevin



<hr width=100% size=1>