capnsensible
Well-known member
There is no requirement for a candidate to have passed a theory course. How you get your knowledge is entirely up to you!
Lots of folk simply find it more convenient to be coached.
Yachtmaster time limit?
- Thread starter Seagreen
- Start date
There is no requirement for a candidate to have passed a theory course. How you get your knowledge is entirely up to you!
Lots of folk simply find it more convenient to be coached.
MissFitz
Member
Sorry, yes, you may be right (I'm sure you are!) about the Yachtmaster qualification. However, I'm fairly sure that to get either the Day Skipper or Yachtmaster/Coastal Skipper theory qualifications you have to do the course - just doing the exam isn't an option.
capnsensible
Well-known member
Just looked at a theory certificate, it does say that the student has completed the course to the required standard. Good question for RYA training though.
Can a student just sit the exam and if succesful, be recognised.
Can a student just sit the exam and if succesful, be recognised.
MissFitz
Member
I did actually ask them about this, because it struck me there might a good opportunity to offer tailored individual tuition to people who didn't want/need to go through the whole course. I was told this was absolutely not permitted (even if the instructor had an RYA qualification) & that the only way anyone could get a theory certificate was to pay their £500 & put in the hours in the classroom.
Keen_Ed
Active member
There isn't a Day Skipper exam. For Coastal Skipper and Offshore Yachtmaster, you don't have to do any courses at all - you can book yourself an examiner, and just do the practical exam without any contact with a sailing school. Theory courses are not a requirement for the practicals.
http://www.rya.org.uk/coursestraining/courses/sailcruising/Pages/Yachtmaster.aspx
Pre exam requirements for coastal:
http://www.rya.org.uk/coursestraining/exams/Pages/Coastalskipper.aspx
YACHTMASTER COASTAL EXAM PRE-REQUISITES
Minimum seatime 30 days, 2 days as skipper, 800 miles, 12 night hours (if you hold the Coastal Skipper course certificate this is reduced to 20 days, 2 days as skipper, 400 miles, 12 night hours). Half the qualifying sea time must be conducted in tidal waters.
Form of exam Practical
Certification required A restricted (VHF only) Radio Operators Certificate or a GMDSS Short Range Certificate or higher grade of marine radio certificate. A valid first aid certificate* (first aid qualifications held by Police, Fire and Armed Services are acceptable).
Minimum exam duration 6-10 hours for 1 candidate, 8-14 hours for 2 candidates
Minimum age 17
http://www.rya.org.uk/coursestraining/exams/Pages/Yachtmasteroffshore.aspx
YACHTMASTER OFFSHORE EXAM PRE-REQUISITES
Minimum seatime 50 days, 2,500 miles including at least 5 passages over 60 miles measured along the rhumb line from the port of departure to the destination, acting as skipper for at least two of these passages and including two which have involved overnight passages. 5 days experience as skipper. At least half this mileage and passages must be in tidal waters. All qualifying seatime must be within 10 years prior to the exam.
Form of exam Practical
Certification required A restricted (VHF only) Radio Operators Certificate or a GMDSS Short Range Certificate or higher grade of marine radio certificate. A valid first aid certificate* (first aid qualifications held by Police, Fire and Armed Services are acceptable).
Minimum exam duration 8-12 hours for 1 candidate, 10-18 hours for 2 candidates. No more than two candidates can be examined in 24 hours and no more than four candidates can be examined in one 2 day session.
Minimum age 18
Lady Campanula
N/A
Peeps seem to be 'not reading the manuals' again.... And let's please get this clear - a theory certificate is NOT a qualification. it is a 'Certificate of Satisfactory Completion of a Course'. If you don't do the course, you can't get the Completion Certificate.
That doesn't prevent you presenting yourself for assessment for the Practical Certificate of Competence on the water. The RYA provide several paths to that. The choice is yours.
capnsensible
Well-known member
Do it online Average 300 quid!
capnsensible
Well-known member
Peeps seem to be 'not reading the manuals' again.... And let's please get this clear - a theory certificate is NOT a qualification. it is a 'Certificate of Satisfactory Completion of a Course'. If you don't do the course, you can't get the Completion Certificate.
That doesn't prevent you presenting yourself for assessment for the Practical Certificate of Competence on the water. The RYA provide several paths to that. The choice is yours.
What is it then? You have completed a course and as it says (read the manual mode switched to o n ):
This is to certify.... has attended a course of instruction and demonstrated a knowledge of theory up to the standard of xxx.
(read the manual mode o f f selected.)
Sounds like a qualification to me. What it clearly is not is a practical examination pass certificate, on that we are agreed.
I see no reason why it cannot be asked at RYA traing why someone who claims to have the necessary navigational background cannot sit the exam to be assessed in their theoretical knowledge. For the practical exam, it does point out that the candidate should be able to demonstrate their ability to answer questions on any part of the sylabus for all courses. Why not then with the right background, go straight for the theory assessment? Interesting.
You may rest happily in the knowledge that in the quest for truth and justice and fair play to all creatures great and small that we will give em a bell monday!
Lady Campanula
N/A
Doesn't sound like a 'qualification' to me, or any of the other Shorebased Tutors I know. Nor is it intended as such.
Neither does 'University of Calcutta Dept of Engineering, Ordinary Degree 1996 - Failed'. But it is used by some benighted souls to get jobs.
When I look at someone's RYA Certificate of Competence, I know that an accredited Examiner somewhere - who's values and judgement I can relate to - has decided this guy or gal was, on one day, capable of displaying the right standards of performance. And a Course Completion Certificate tells me that someone has started on that journey.
If peeps can't/won't go to the trouble of learning the stuff and how to put it into practice according to the RYA's chosen system, they can always save themselves both time and money by crafting their own certificates, using one of the many free Desktop Publishing programs and a cheap printer. They can even self-certify if that toots their horn.....
MissFitz
Member
Peeps seem to be 'not reading the manuals' again.... And let's please get this clear - a theory certificate is NOT a qualification. it is a 'Certificate of Satisfactory Completion of a Course'. If you don't do the course, you can't get the Completion Certificate.
That doesn't prevent you presenting yourself for assessment for the Practical Certificate of Competence on the water. The RYA provide several paths to that. The choice is yours.
Again, sorry, you are of course quite right - totally competent people don't need to do any courses at all, just turn up for the Yachtmaster exam. But I at least was told that examiners prefer to see a theory certificate, & you have to have one for the Day Skipper qualification, & I still don't entirely see why you can't prove you know the theory by simply sitting an exam for £50 or some such. But maybe I'm just being fussy.............
capnsensible
Well-known member
Well it won't the way you have edited it. Thats the problem with half reading a manual.
capnsensible
Well-known member
Im gonna bin all my o levels because I attended instruction, was tested but they are not qualifications anymore.
Elessar
Well-known member
capnsensible
Well-known member
Or not, because I have realised that being tested and passing means that they actually really are qualifications and not a course attendance certificate unlike, for example anRYA Day Skipper practical course completion certificate.
Seagreen
New member
I think the real reason is the emptiness in the RYA coffers if they did allow that. But to be fair, a lot of examiners on the theory courses, as well as the other students, may well feel aggrieved if someone just turns up and walks through it.
Lady Campanula
N/A
Bolleaux! Just about all the tutors of the Shorebased Courses I've met - and that's scores of 'em - are involved principally to 'put something back in'. They're enthusiasts! If someone pitches up who's also an enthusiast, has put the time and effort in somewhere to understand the stuff, is clearly going to put the 'certificate of course completion' to good and legal use - and is not a PITA - then that tutor will almost certainly find a way to accommodate the sailing enthusiast. It has been done, and frequently.
However, when I ran and taught such courses, it was imperative/mandatory that I discussed intentions/background know-how/experience with each prospective student, to ensure that - in my judgment - the student was matched to the course. My decision.
Now and then, some aspirants were adamant that they enrol on the YM Offshore course when it was quite apparent to me that a different course was most appropriate. Now and then, some aspirants were encouraged to go elsewhere. There are multiple good reasons why that was, in certain cases, absolutely the right decision for all concerned. That remains both the prerogative and the responsibility of the tutor.
Would you seriously have it any other way....?
Bosun Higgs
N/A
I agree with her ladyship. The YM shorebased course is continuous assessment and is all about attendance, course work and the exercises as you go along. There is no pass / fail mark in the final "exams" other than for the colregs, and at the end what you get is an attendance certificate.
The shorebased course is not a qualification.
The shorebased course is not a qualification.
capnsensible
Well-known member
The other 2 papers are Met and chartwork. The Instructor must be satisfied that the student has understood the concepts taught and has sufficient knowledge to put the theory into practice.
These tests are graded with guidlines as to pass or fail.
For me, if you are tested and pass a subject, then you have qualified in that discipline.
Practical corses generate course completion certificates. Students may then opt to be tested at Yachtmaster Coastal, Offshore and Ocean.
A successful pass at these tests certifies competancy to that level. Sounds a bit like a qualification too.
These tests are graded with guidlines as to pass or fail.
For me, if you are tested and pass a subject, then you have qualified in that discipline.
Practical corses generate course completion certificates. Students may then opt to be tested at Yachtmaster Coastal, Offshore and Ocean.
A successful pass at these tests certifies competancy to that level. Sounds a bit like a qualification too.
Sandy
Well-known member
Hello
I wonder if the current UK driving test could be a useful comparison? OK, I do know that you can take any of the Yachtmaster exams by turning up and doing the boat based exam.
With the driving test you need to pass the theory part before they let you do the practical. You could see the Yachtmaster in the same way having the theory certificate allows you to take the theory exam with less sea time.
I expect I am rather unusual here, I passed my Day Skipper about 30 years ago and have not done any serious sailing for some 15 years and am putting myself through the exam system again - why? Well the technologies have changed and I need to learn how to use them in a formal way and get somebody to check that I understand all this new fangled stuff (some of the tricks with a GPS are amazing). I suspect because I work in an industry that 'we need bits of paper to do stuff I see it as normal'. At the end of the day I want to be able to take my boat from point A to point B safely.
capnsensible
Well-known member
Hiya Gorf,
Sorry Im not quite getting your point here.
I do understand about the paper chase though having worked in a field where constant qualifying and re qualifying was necessary.
I appreciate thats different for leisure sailors, the training is voluntary. It does suit lots of folk though to be mentored in some way and have their progress monitored. I think the RYA scheme has proven to be as fair as any as can be seen by the demand from all over the world.
Of course its not perfect and certainly wont suit everyone, but its difficult to find ways to improve a robust scheme that does work.
I would like to think that the staff at the RYA are open to suggestion and are approachable. Others will no doubt disagree!
Sorry Im not quite getting your point here.
I do understand about the paper chase though having worked in a field where constant qualifying and re qualifying was necessary.
I appreciate thats different for leisure sailors, the training is voluntary. It does suit lots of folk though to be mentored in some way and have their progress monitored. I think the RYA scheme has proven to be as fair as any as can be seen by the demand from all over the world.
Of course its not perfect and certainly wont suit everyone, but its difficult to find ways to improve a robust scheme that does work.
I would like to think that the staff at the RYA are open to suggestion and are approachable. Others will no doubt disagree!