Yachtmaster time limit?

[Seagreen]

I've just checked the RYA website for the boat's (RYA c8) requirements for the Yachtmaster Offshore practical (planning to take the exam on my own boat), only to find out that there is a 10 year time limit on qualifying hours and distance. Havinng easily exceeded these years ago, and having spent most of the last 10 years bringing up children, under this rule, most of my previous experience counts for nothing.

Is this 10 year time limit for the qualifying period just for a commercial endorsement (which I don't want) or is it universal to all applicants?

If so, theres no point in even thinking about a Yachtmaster ticket for the "fun" of it. It drops a 'rock through the bottom' of the RYA's declared aim of accessibe sailing training for all, and if true, leaves me feeling very disenfranchised.

I really hope this isn't the case. (

 

[Tranona]

Why don't you phone the RYA to find out?

 

[Sandyman]

Sorry I am unable to answer your specif question. Someone will no doubt.

I would however not be surprised if this were the case. It has been of concern to me for some time when I see the seamanship standards of some peeps with RYA qualifications , which has often lead me to question how they ever managed to achieve those qualifications.
Questioning instructors their usual reply is that having achieved the standard for the qualification some trainee will often not return to sailing for many months and sometimes years and has subsequently forgotten most of what he learned.

Maybe the time limit is for such reasons. Maybe this should also apply to all levels of qualifications. Personally I think it should.

 

[G12]

Phone them, they're really helpful normally and they do take a realistic view on things.... You'll probably be fine.

 

[pendlecats]

That's the case I was told luckily I had enough time totted up to go as far as CS.

I fancy going on to YM at some point, but as you say all my early days don't count, so I didn't bother putting known old trips in my RYA log book.

http://www.rya.org.uk/coursestraining/exams/Pages/Yachtmasteroffshore.aspx
Minimum seatime: 50 days, 2,500 miles including at least 5 passages over 60 miles measured along the rhumb line from the port of departure to the destination, acting as skipper for at least two of these passages and including two which have involved overnight passages. 5 days experience as skipper. At least half this mileage and passages must be in tidal waters. All qualifying seatime must be within 10 years prior to the exam.

 

[BlueSkyNick]

Is this 10 year time limit for the qualifying period just for a commercial endorsement (which I don't want) or is it universal to all applicants?

If so, theres no point in even thinking about a Yachtmaster ticket for the "fun" of it. It drops a 'rock through the bottom' of the RYA's declared aim of accessibe sailing training for all, and if true, leaves me feeling very disenfranchised.

It is nothing to do with Commercial Endorsement, it applies to all candidates - I had to do an extra 1000 due to previous experience being out of date.

You havent been disenfranchised from sailing training - it is still accessible to you

 

[Seagreen]

I can see the point about forgetting training, but it isn't valid. Maybe for someone looking for a commercial endorsement, it has value, but not as a training certificate of competence. It is perfectly legal for someone to pass their driving test and then not drive at all for 15 years and then try and drive a car, so the same thing should be true of a yachtmaster cert.

In my own experience, most but not all of the last 10 year has been coastal daysailing, with a few channel crossings. There ought to be some recognition of experience gained, with say, a clearer distinction between commercial and pleasure certificates. This "one size fits all" approach is clearly wrong.

 

[aquaplane]

It's just the way it is.

I sailed loads before I was married but not so much untill I got divorced. Virtually none of my experience was within the time.
I have never done a 60 mile passage.
I have only day sailed so have 0 night hours.
Much of my experience is non tidal.
It doesn't stop me sailing though.
I do realise my lack of experience could make a proposed passage from Cumbra to Scotland an adventure for me which for many would be a milkrun, but I'll have a go without any RYA practical qualifications.
I have sailed a desk round the local night school a few times so I can find where I am.

Will building up your log book again be a terrible thing to do? I'm looking forward to starting mine.

 

[Talulah]

In my experience (and this is not the official view) examiners are far more interested in where you have been sailing rather than when you did it. i.e Someone can clock up the mileage going up and down the Solent but it doesn't count for much.
On the other hand if your log book shows a variety of locations, conditions, boats etc the examiner isn't going to spend too much time adding up the mileage against dates.

 

[Sandy]

This sort of thing is becoming more and more common.

As an Open University student my modules have a 'use by' date after the last time they run them to count for a qualification. As an engineer that holds ‘licence to do things' these have a re-qualification date.

I do agree they can be a pain in the ... when they are looking for ‘experience’ as that never goes.

 

[graham]

A YM examiner once told me his benchmark for passing/ failing is would he allow this candidate to take his (the examiners)children on an offshore passage.

Would you trust someone who had done the minimum requirement of miles then perhaps nothing for 10 years or more?

Im not saying that scenario applys to the original poster but it is food for thought.

 

[duncan99210]

The RYA, like most training organisations, seeks to ensure a reasonable level of continued and continuing experience. For example, whilst I have number of diving qualifications from a variety of agencies, the first question asked by any dive operator I want to dive with is "And when did you last dive?" If I haven't dived for 6 months or so, then I'll be asked to do a review with a Divemaster or Instructor. Similarly, my ancient glider pilot qualifications are no use now, as I haven't piloted one for some 20 years; I'd have to go back and learn again from the begining.

So, what the RYA are trying to do by having a 10 year 'sell by date' on the experience required for Yachtmaster training is to ensure that you have reasonably recent (10 years for crying out loud - try that with diving or flying!) sailing experience. Take the opportunity to do some extended cruising and rebuild the log book entries; enjoy it!

 

[snowleopard]

This idea that you forget everything that hasn't happened recently is becoming increasingly prevalent. I recently applied to go on a watch leader's course with the Jubilee Sailing Trust but wasn't allowed to because my previous trip with them was more than 3 years previous. It was only to have been a refresher because I had previously sailed several times in that capacity.

I took my YM before the 10 year rule was brought in. Today I wouldn't qualify as most of my 50,000 miles was more than 10 years back. The question is - how long will it be before they require you to re-take the exam every so many years? The ICC currently has to be renewed every 5 years but at present you don't need to be re-tested if you base it on a time-unlimited RYA qualification. What is the reason for having to renew it if there is no need for a re-test?

I let my ICC lapse at the end of the first 5 years because no one had ever asked to see it. Would I re-validate a YM, presumably at considerable expense, if it expired? No.

 

[Pete R]

The ICC currently has to be renewed every 5 years but at present you don't need to be re-tested if you base it on a time-unlimited RYA qualification. What is the reason for having to renew it if there is no need for a re-test?

I would imagine it is because the ICC rules can change as they are made by the "international" community. So changes could well happen in the near future and therefore a lifetime ticket would not be appropriate.

 

[Seagreen]

I just want to make it clear that I've nothing against training. I've just done the PB2 course last weekend, so I'm all for training. However, under this time-limit assumption, it is perfectly possible to rack up a great deal of experience yet at the same time, just not have enough to "qualify" for the YM cert.

I'm more than happy to add to my seatime, and would welcome the chance to do so, family and work permitting, but that still isn't the issue.

Now if, in the great scheme of things, politicians start to puff out their CV's, both in the UK and Europe, never mind other parts of the world, with more need for "qualifications" for "safety" especially if they pick on soft targets like sailing, using the 'wealth and privilege' stick (I've precious little of either), who is to say that my sailing days won't be curtailed by some jobsworth because I don't have the right paperwork? This would also hinder me chartering a boat in some areas of the world, should I wish to.

I also object to being labelled as "unqualified" as I don't meet some subjective "criteria". What this time limit does is to actually dissuade people in my situation from bothering with self-improvement. So now, I'm not bothering. Well done, RYA.

 

[VicMallows]

I also object to being labelled as "unqualified" as I don't meet some subjective "criteria". What this time limit does is to actually dissuade people in my situation from bothering with self-improvement. So now, I'm not bothering. Well done, RYA.

I'm puzzled. You initially said you wanted to do YM 'for fun'. Now it seems you really want it to 'prove' something to others. In neither case can I see how this is in any way relevant to 'bothering with self-improvement'.

Personally I have no interest in qualifications unless compelled to have them to satisfy some authority. I have an ICC to keep the French happy ... though even that was grandfathered from the old HOCC (which was issued simply on the signature of a yacht club official). Equally, I know many people who get a lot of satisfaction from passing an exam and having a certificate - fine by me.

Vic

 

[Mark-1]

there is a 10 year time limit on qualifying hours and distance. snip If so, theres no point in even thinking about a Yachtmaster ticket for the "fun" of it.

There's no need whatsoever for a written logbook to do YM:

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249173

So, if your sailing from over 10 years ago is still fresh in your mind you can just verbally state you have enough experience within the 10 year period and they'll have no way of knowing.

Not really immoral since if it's not fresh in your mind then they'll realize, and/or you'll fail. (and people who have it can already legitimately drop below the requirements needed to get it IYSWIM.)

If you're doing it for fun do you even need the bit of paper? Maybe they'd take your cash for the assessment even if they couldn't issue the certificate?

My own view is if you've got to an age when you've had a family for ten years without it, do you really need it? Just go sailing without it as you, and so many of us already do.

 

[Seagreen]

I'm puzzled. You initially said you wanted to do YM 'for fun'. Now it seems you really want it to 'prove' something to others. In neither case can I see how this is in any way relevant to 'bothering with self-improvement'.

Personally I have no interest in qualifications unless compelled to have them to satisfy some authority. I have an ICC to keep the French happy ... though even that was grandfathered from the old HOCC (which was issued simply on the signature of a yacht club official). Equally, I know many people who get a lot of satisfaction from passing an exam and having a certificate - fine by me.

Vic

Yes, I do/did want to take the YM cert for fun, for the satisfaction, etc. I also don't feel the need to "prove" myself, other than for personal satisfaction. However, you yourself have just put your finger on the problem. You "have an ICC just to keep the French happy". OK, but that's just the Issue. I've got PB2 so that's no problem upgrading to an ICC for power. I could easily get a Coastal Skipper cert, but that has no time limit for the qualifying mileage, etc. Why no time limit for Coastal, if its Sooo necessary for the Offshore Skipper?

Can I be sure that my chances of getting insurance won't reduce or start becoming stupidly expensive over the next few years if I can't get a "YM discount"? Now do you see the problem?

 

[Seagreen]

@ Mark-1
Its just the attitude that "experience doesn't count/ isn't relevant" that irks me. I could say that I didn't care, but I obviously do. And its just another example of creeping beaurocracy.

 

[Mark-1]

@ Mark-1
Its just the attitude that "experience doesn't count/ isn't relevant" that irks me.

If you don't like their product, don't buy it. You've never needed it before.

Edit: Sorry that wasn't supposed to sound as rude as it did!!!