Yachtmaster theory question

[lw395]

John Morris, do the RYA still teach "proper sounding" with a line and weight? And taking samples of the bottom with a dob of blu tack wrapped around the weight?
We have used a lead and line from a dinghy tiptoeing up a creek or two, as much for fun as anything else but never had a massive amount of luck sampling the substrate. Is this another skill that is consigned to the past, or is it still taught as a back up?

Long time since I did this. An RYA boat as it happens.
Gong to the Gun Inn, lots of 'Tom Sawyer' up the channel. We ran aground. When it got too shallow there was no space to turn around.

You're supposed to use bacon fat, not blu tak.

 

[solent clown]

Long time since I did this. An RYA boat as it happens.
Gong to the Gun Inn, lots of 'Tom Sawyer' up the channel. We ran aground. When it got too shallow there was no space to turn around.

You're supposed to use bacon fat, not blu tak.

Bacon fat, zero chance of that with being wasted on sounding with the wife on board. Did you get out and push?

 

[laika]

Is this another skill that is consigned to the past, or is it still taught as a back up?

It wasn't part of the syllabus when I did it 13 years ago. Blu-tack sounds rather more vegan friendly than tallow though.

 

[solent clown]

It wasn't part of the syllabus when I did it 13 years ago. Blu-tack sounds rather more vegan friendly than tallow though.

50 years of living on the solent and teaching by osmosis from all the old sea dogs I grew up around probably makes the way we do things a bit old fashioned and eccentric these days. Maybe one day I might actually do the course

 

[lw395]

Bacon fat, zero chance of that with being wasted on sounding with the wife on board. Did you get out and push?

Threw out an anchor. Dinghy to pub IIRC.

 

[solent clown]

Threw out an anchor. Dinghy to pub IIRC.

Got to love a man with his priorities just right :encouragement:

 

[john_morris_uk]

John Morris, do the RYA still teach "proper sounding" with a line and weight? And taking samples of the bottom with a dob of blu tack wrapped around the weight?
We have used a lead and line from a dinghy tiptoeing up a creek or two, as much for fun as anything else but never had a massive amount of luck sampling the substrate. Is this another skill that is consigned to the past, or is it still taught as a back up?

I’m not sure what you mean by ‘teach proper sounding’. It’s part of the coding requirement for commercial vessels to have a lead line on board. I often get students to check the echo sounder on the boat at the start of a weeks course as you never know who’s been mucking about with the the offset and calibration. There is a correct way to swing a lead, but it’s not in the syllabus....

 

[solent clown]

I’m not sure what you mean by ‘teach proper sounding’. It’s part of the coding requirement for commercial vessels to have a lead line on board. I often get students to check the echo sounder on the boat at the start of a weeks course as you never know who’s been mucking about with the the offset and calibration. There is a correct way to swing a lead, but it’s not in the syllabus....

By proper I meant old fashioned and all but redundant, like most of us :encouragement:

 

[alant]

John Morris, do the RYA still teach "proper sounding" with a line and weight? And taking samples of the bottom with a dob of blu tack wrapped around the weight?
We have used a lead and line from a dinghy tiptoeing up a creek or two, as much for fun as anything else but never had a massive amount of luck sampling the substrate. Is this another skill that is consigned to the past, or is it still taught as a back up?

I always got students to use some string & weight tied to it, if no lead line, if only to check where echosounder calibrated from.

 

[john_morris_uk]

By proper I meant old fashioned and all but redundant, like most of us :encouragement:

I don’t think checking the depth with a bit of string and a weight is so old fashioned it is irrelevant.

 

[cunningdavid]

The question was about anchoring. I think Tom Cunliffe was talking about sailing up to a certain depth to drop anchor in real life, whereas I'd been imaging doing the exercise in theory on a chart. With that cleared up it makes sense!

 

[Hadenough]

I don’t think checking the depth with a bit of string and a weight is so old fashioned it is irrelevant.

Agreed but in this day and age finding out what the installed instruments are calibrated to is just as important. (Doh, don't know if the echo sounder is set to keel or actual depth)

 

[solent clown]

I don’t think checking the depth with a bit of string and a weight is so old fashioned it is irrelevant.

Ok chap, that's fine, you are absolutely right there, my unreserved apologies from digressing from thread on here. I know it is not the done thing.

Have a think about the question, and your answer to it, "ABOUT KNOWING HOW DEEP THE WATER IS"
A digression my questuon may be be on the method of depth sounding, but it was a genuine question, and one that may some day be of use to the modern chap who's electronic sounder stops working.
I was simply wondering you you still taught low tech backups or just instrument reading these days. Of course a balance must be struck, and I was wondering where that lies.

 

[webcraft]

I always got students to use some string & weight tied to it, if no lead line, if only to check where echosounder calibrated from.

Good practice on a charter yacht or any strange vessel as well if you are not absolutely sure.

- W

 

[cunningdavid]

In Tom's book he's pretty keen on maintaining the old pre-electronic methods. I think it's a mixture of having a backup system, calibration/double checking, and probably mostly about making sure that you actually understand how it all works.

 

[solent clown]

I have always been taught to take on board any information for a given situation you can, and be able to adapt if things went wrong. Maybe that isn't the modern way of doing things in civvy street or the leisure industry.

 

[lw395]

I’m not sure what you mean by ‘teach proper sounding’. It’s part of the coding requirement for commercial vessels to have a lead line on board. I often get students to check the echo sounder on the boat at the start of a weeks course as you never know who’s been mucking about with the the offset and calibration. There is a correct way to swing a lead, but it’s not in the syllabus....

There is no correct way to 'swing a lead'. Swinging the lead is by definition incorrect.
You take depths by casting the lead.
'Swinging the lead' is pretending to do so.

 

[john_morris_uk]

There is no correct way to 'swing a lead'. Swinging the lead is by definition incorrect.
You take depths by casting the lead.
'Swinging the lead' is pretending to do so.

You are quite right. My humble apologies. Swinging the lead is making it look as though you are working hard without actually doing too much.

I remember being taught a technique by John Goode in which you positioned a crew on the bow with the lead line tied on the end of the boat hook and you crept up a creek ‘fishing’ for the greater depth either side of the boat so you could feel your way up the deepest part of the water. Best done on a making tide of course.

 

[Uricanejack]

I'm intrigued. Do tell, what weird way does RYA teach to pick a spot to anchor? I'm also a Shorebased Instructor.

I'm not an RYA anything. So precisely what the RYA advocates I wouldn't know, Though it appears TC is regarded as the Grand High Commander of YM's and all things RYA.

Perhaps I picked the wrong smiley face,
Perhaps I should have said Cuncliffs weird way. Still almost everyone appears to agree with him.

The odd bit, which I find weird, is the advice you don't need a chart. To me that's weird. Checking it by all means, makes perfect sense. particular checking you will have enough water at low water, entirely logical. Verifying the information on the chart is accurate entirely logical. Which can be quite embarrassing if you don't.

Admittedly, I go lots of places without looking at the chart, If I've been there before, have the local knowledge and choose o take the risk.
Anchoring in a spot I am not familiar with. I will look at the chart, read the sailing directions and if in doubt pull out a piece of string and a large wrench. before I start doing tide calcs.

As a theoretical exercise, OK,

Advocating a chart is not required, is just plain weird.

The OP questioning TC. Is just he OP applying common sense.

 

[Uricanejack]

You are quite right. My humble apologies. Swinging the lead is making it look as though you are working hard without actually doing too much.

I remember being taught a technique by John Goode in which you positioned a crew on the bow with the lead line tied on the end of the boat hook and you crept up a creek ‘fishing’ for the greater depth either side of the boat so you could feel your way up the deepest part of the water. Best done on a making tide of course.

By the "Mark Twain"
Or
By the "Deep Six"