Yachtmaster milage

[jimbaerselman]

I wonder why the rules have a minimum LWL but a maximum LOA.

Any boats over 24m LOA are subject to different regulations. Crew must have appropriate certificates, and watchkeeping and manning conditions apply.

See https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ency-yacht-deck-officer-training-and-guidance

For those who query the YM qualifying mileages, and the relevance of experience in craft under 7m LOA (or LWL!) it's worth remembering that a YM is valid for ships up to 24m LOA or 150 GRT. Such vessels require competence to handle ropes under high tension. You're very unlikely to gain the necessary experience in any vessel under 10m.

And yes, it's very easy to detect differences between claimed and actual experience by asking a couple of "situation" questions.

 

[AndrewB]

Ditto. Most of my miles are on my own boat so all I need to do is read the log (instrument, not book). Currently running at 19,000. I have done a few passages of up to 1,000 miles on other boats but see no reason to actually write them down. The memories are sufficient.

Regardless of YM quals, I'm so glad that over the years I kept a log of everything, apart from day trips. Originally it was essential for DR navigation, since GPS it has just been a habit. Nothing chatty: just position, times, distances, conditions, ports entered, sightings. Looking back over them now, 18 books full stretching over 45 years, is a real trip down memory lane of recalling particular cruises both good (superb!) and bad (terrifying!). Otherwise so much of it would have just faded into a blur.

 

[Skylark]

...........................18 books full stretching over 45 years, is a real trip down memory lane of recalling particular cruises both good (superb!) and bad (terrifying!). Otherwise so much of it would have just faded into a blur.

Just brilliant! I can't compete with this but I, too like keeping a log for no better reason than having something to look back upon with fond memories. Trying to decifer my handwritting gives a reasonable indication of sea state during any particular passage. I also have a log of over 1,000 dives with anecdotal observations from many beautiful sites from around the world. Why would't you?

 

[DJE]

They seem to be inconsistent on that page.

Look at the table and it talks about min 7m LWL up to 24m LOA.

I'd better give my YM certificate back then! Nearly all my mileage was done in a Sadler 29 with LWL 6.95m.

 

[STATUE]

I probably should you know this, but your comment has awakened me.

I have a B&G h1000 log - do you know if I can see my cumulative log on the system somewhere ?

 

[PhillM]

I wonder why the rules have a minimum LWL but a maximum LOA. What were they trying to exclude? Apart from my boat, that is - 26' LOA, long keel, 4 tons, doesn't count.

Are you sure? Do you have overhangs? Is you lwl longer when heeled? Could you log mikes beating separately and submit that?

 

[mcframe]

For my Coastal Skipper exam the examiner didn't even open the log book
[]
I'd also really recommend a bit of racing. A lot of the forumites around here seem to think there's no skill in racing, but there is and you'll learn a lot from the senior crew of a decent racer.

I mentioned to my examiner that I was doing the exam 'cos the Fastnet had filled up the final entry in my logbook. He didn't look at it in much detail.

Q. How can you tell if someone has done the Fastnet?
A. You don't need to, they'll tell you soon enough.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Any boats over 24m LOA are subject to different regulations. Crew must have appropriate certificates, and watchkeeping and manning conditions apply.

See https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ency-yacht-deck-officer-training-and-guidance

For those who query the YM qualifying mileages, and the relevance of experience in craft under 7m LOA (or LWL!) it's worth remembering that a YM is valid for ships up to 24m LOA or 150 GRT. Such vessels require competence to handle ropes under high tension. You're very unlikely to gain the necessary experience in any vessel under 10m. .

Sure, though I have to say I have my doubts that experience in a 10m yacht will be terribly relevant to a 24m one. What I find odd is that the minimum is LWL while the maximum is LOA.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Are you sure? Do you have overhangs? Is you lwl longer when heeled? Could you log mikes beating separately and submit that?

I have a windvane - does that help?

 

[lpdsn]

Q. How can you tell if someone has done the Fastnet?
A. You don't need to, they'll tell you soon enough.

I still use one of the freebie sailcloth kit bags they gave out, so can keep my mouth closed.

 

[awol]

What I find odd is that the minimum is LWL while the maximum is LOA.

I may be mistaken but it is alleged that the shrinkage to 7m LWL was engendered by an application for exam by the owner of a gaff cutter which with its bowsprit was well over 7m LOA but whose LWL was not. No examiner (all freelance I understand) felt enthused enough to undertake this exam and the RYA fudged it by changing the rules retrospectively but left anomalous vestiges all over their website.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I may be mistaken but it is alleged that the shrinkage to 7m LWL was engendered by an application for exam by the owner of a gaff cutter which with its bowsprit was well over 7m LOA but whose LWL was not. No examiner (all freelance I understand) felt enthused enough to undertake this exam and the RYA fudged it by changing the rules retrospectively but left anomalous vestiges all over their website.

Ah yes, I remember that saga.

 

[jac]

I may be mistaken but it is alleged that the shrinkage to 7m LWL was engendered by an application for exam by the owner of a gaff cutter which with its bowsprit was well over 7m LOA but whose LWL was not. No examiner (all freelance I understand) felt enthused enough to undertake this exam and the RYA fudged it by changing the rules retrospectively but left anomalous vestiges all over their website.

That makes perfect sense but why stick with the 7m figure.
If 7m LOA was considered OK why not just say 6m LWL minimum which gets over the gaffer with huge bowsprit scenario.

 

[JumbleDuck]

That makes perfect sense but why stick with the 7m figure.
If 7m LOA was considered OK why not just say 6m LWL minimum which gets over the gaffer with huge bowsprit scenario.

Or 7m LOD, for that matter? It seems a bit daft to say that you can't do YM miles in a Westerly Centaur.

 

[Neil]

And now I realise that my milage and passages in my Sadler 25 are no use to me for YM. That's a bit of a bummer; I could have bought a bigger boat, but elected for small but beautifully formed, still with YM in mind.........

 

[LadyInBed]

if you only ever sailed a 22' then you are hardly qualified to be taking charge of big boats.

log some miles on your boat but get lots of experience helping others on bigger boats.

Bloody cheek!
Logging 7500nM on a 22 footer, including two canal trips to the Med and many trips down around CI's, St Malo and Paimpol. I don't think you could say that that doesn't give anyone a reasonable amount of experience.
The sense of achievement was far greater then than now, doing similar trips (without experience of helping others on bigger boats) on a 33 footer.
I now have to cross to Spain to feel any sense of achievement!

 

[lpdsn]

And now I realise that my milage and passages in my Sadler 25 are no use to me for YM. That's a bit of a bummer; I could have bought a bigger boat, but elected for small but beautifully formed, still with YM in mind.........

The ISA still use 7m LOA in their pre-requisites.

http://www.sailing.ie/Portals/0/Guidelines for Yachtmaster Candidates.pdf

Get your application in quick before they do the cut & paste

 

[awol]

When you have logged your miles in your smidgeon over 7m LWL boat the RYA say you will need one 7.5m LWL or more for the exam. That rules out a Contessa 32, Rival 32, and a wheen more boats that have an excellent record of seaworthiness. Luckily a Benjenbav of 26' or so will meet their criterion.

 

[lpdsn]

When you have logged your miles in your smidgeon over 7m LWL boat the RYA say you will need one 7.5m LWL or more for the exam. That rules out a Contessa 32, Rival 32, and a wheen more boats that have an excellent record of seaworthiness. Luckily a Benjenbav of 26' or so will meet their criterion.

The obvious symptoms of a quick hack.

I can see why the RYA have done this. The idea of somebody sitting their YM exam on a 24 foot boat then going off and skippering a 20m boat is analogous to a newly-qualified car driver hopping behind the wheel of an artic. The RYA have reached the stage where they're trying to kill two birds with one stone. The first is those who are looking to get commercially endorsed and go on to a professional career and MCA qualifications. The second is amateur yachtsmen just wanting to satisfy themselves they've reached a certain standard.

You could argue that the second group were the original market, but as I understand it the original aim was really to feed the RNVR, so neither can claim pre-eminence. Anyway, the commercially-endorsed market are probably the ones paying the piper these days.

I still stand by the post I made a day or two ago that the solution is to split the exam by length. You sit it on a 12m boat (say) and you can subsequently get commercially endorsed and go on to the MCA quals for larger boats. Or you sit it on a smaller boat and it is only valid as an amateur up to 12m. Nothing to stop amateurs taking the exam on a 12m+ boat (as I did). Nothing to stop owners of smaller boats sitting it on their own boat, providing that it is at least large enough that they have somewhere to stow the examiner.

 

[PhillM]

I have to say that on consideration I'm not too happy about this change. There seems to be a continual push towards larger boats.

Sister boat of my 26' loa, 24' lod 19.5' Loa boat was a 1960's jog racer. Came second in class I understand. One took part in the Ostar as well. Now banned by both and now not "good enough" for yachtmaster coastal milage.

You can still take your driving test in a 1960's mini, so why are small boats being discriminated against?