Yacht Names

[RichardS]

Sorry for thread drift.

Albeit I've yet to leave UK waters in my current boat I do have some concerns over this.

Did the Authorities look at your stern or just question the SSR certificate? Regardless of UK law, I can't imagine those nice port police in Croatia, for example, giving two hoots. "My country, my laws, your fine" seems to be their approach to visiting yachtsmen.

Did you try claiming "Cardiff" as the port of registry as it's shown on the SSR?

When I leave or enter Croatia the Police want a number and a port of registry on their form. The SSR number and "Cardiff" seems to satisfy them.

Richard

 

[BrianH]

I seem to recall when applying for my ships radio licence there was a requirement to provide the name of the ship..... so, calling your boat by the call sign can't happen as you need a name to generate a call sign. Bit chicken and egg.

That was my impression too. The Ofcom certificate certainly needs a name for the 'Ship Radio Licence' that includes the allocated 'Call Sign' and 'MMSI' number. Also, once registered, the ITU Telecoms listing is sorted under Ship Name. So I cannot think a call sign can be allocated with no name.

The OP seems to have flounced off in a huff, which is a pity, it would have been interesting to learn what he has against using a name - surely his vessel has a name ... ? Perhaps too long or complicated ... or embarrassing? If not, why not? Lack of imagination in thinking of one? Take the example of the Russian oligarch who named his megayacht 'A' just so it would be the first on the shipping list - that didn't take much imagination. The OP could always try 'A1', or 'B' if he has trouble thinking of a name.

As for a home port for an SSR boat, I simply made up a sticker which I put on the lower part of the SSR card reading "Home Port Falmouth": keeps all and sundry quiet as stops me have to spell Falmouth to various marina clerks. Marked on the stern as it stops any fuss from self important officials in the Med.

Many years ago when I had a UK residence and could legitimately apply for a SSR, it came in a laminated, A6 format and slotted into a blue plastic booklet folder on the inner, right side. I printed out and laminated a list with the boat's dimensions and included a 'Port of Registry' as "Swansea" - the precursor of Cardiff in those days - and affixed it to the left, inner side. This facilitated enormously to the declaration procedure at foreign ports where always a port of registry was expected and asked for, including dimensions not on the SSR certificate.

Now, with no UK residence and a different boat, she is Part I registered and for the name and port of registry on the transom ... with a canoe stern I don't have one, they are on both quarters and very visible from beam-on and astern. It would look odd to have them duplicated at the bow.

 

[Daydream believer]

Next time you visit you could just write it on with a soft pencil (upside down if you really want to annoy them!) and wipe to off afterwards.

I did that( the correct way up) during the "decision" phase of the "whether to fine me or not". I was instructed by a junior officer to rub it off as the chief considered i was taking the P..ss
Apparently it had to be clearly readable at a distance of ( from memory) 50 metres

 

[Mark-1]

The Ofcom certificate certainly needs a name for the 'Ship Radio Licence' .

There's a name feild to be filled in. In practical terms there's nothing stopping you using "Westerly Discuss 2343", "25ft RIB" or "Yellow Kayak" as a name and then either leaving it or changing "name" to match callsign when that's known.

A quick search of the ITU maritime database reveals many boats with name 'UNKNOWN', "No Name", "Kayak", "Rib":
http://www.itu.int/online/mms/mars/ship_search.sh

After 10 minutes of searching I can't find Ofcom's definition of name or anywhere that says that's not legally allowed. Maybe someone else can.

Part I registered and for the name and port of registry on the transom ... with a canoe stern I don't have one, they are on both quarters and very visible from beam-on and astern.

That's fine, the MSA says 'stern' not transom and doesn't limit the number of times you have it. You meet that requirement.

 

[prv]

There's a name feild to be filled in. In practical terms there's nothing stopping you using "Westerly Discuss 2343", "25ft RIB" or "Yellow Kayak" as a name

I took out a ship station license for the handheld we keep in a flare bottle strapped to the transom of our knockoff Zapcat-alike. For a name I just used the model name of the boat - "Supacat".

Pete

 

[KellysEye]

The best boat names I saw for calling the coastguard were Exocet Attack and Security.

 

[LadyInBed]

This thread got me thinking about boat names.
I might change "Lady in Red" to "The Boat" because I always say:
I'm going to the boat or I'm on the boat

 

[Mark-1]

This thread got me thinking about boat names.
I might change "Lady in Red" to "The Boat" because I always say:
I'm going to the boat or I'm on the boat

If you search, a dozen or so people have had the same idea:
http://www.itu.int/online/mms/mars/ship_search.sh

 

[rogerthebodger]

A Guy in our marina has named his boat @Office.

 

[GrahamM376]

It seems that if a vessel is registered on any of the registers, it must have a name. I can't find it now but, from memory, international law dictates the name and port of registry be displayed on the transom. A couple of years ago, 24 boats were impounded in Bruce's yard (Portugal) for not having name and/or port of registry so displayed.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1993/3138/made

Names

30.—(1) On making an application for registration of a ship the applicant shall propose a name by which the ship is to be called.

(2) Schedule 1 (which provides for the approval of names) shall have effect.

(3) A ship shall not be described by any name other than its registered name.

(4) A change shall not be made in a registered ship’s name without the prior written permission of the Registrar.

 

[prv]

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1993/3138/made

Thanks. Always good to go to the source for these questions.

Interestingly badly drafted though - according to those regulations, the register has to send a carving and marking note to everybody who registers a vessel - paragraph 31(2). But we know that this isn't actually done (and nor should it be) for Part 3 (SSR). Furthermore, anyone who receives a carving and marking note is required not just to add the tonnage, official number, and name in the prescribed places, but also a draught scale at bow and stern. There's no exception for pleasure vessels mentioned.

It does clear up the question of names for SSR though - you have to specify one when applying, but you do not (by these regs at least) have to display it on the boat.

Pete

 

[Fluvial66]

I think many or most also technically require it for visitors, though it's not practical to check and enforce it.

Pete

Every marina that I went into this summer in Portugual and Spain took a copy
of my insurance, and I watched one marina refuse entry to a French boat that
could not produce a valid insurance certificate.
Its a sensible precaution, and easy to administer. Perhaps UK marinas should
think along the same lines.

 

[Mark-1]

Interestingly badly drafted though - according to those regulations, the register has to send a carving and marking note to everybody who registers a vessel - paragraph 31(2). But we know that this isn't actually done (and nor should it be) for Part 3 (SSR).

I think you've misread it. (Or maybe I have!) That doesn't refer to Part III vessels. They are covered further down, Part XI. If Part VI applied to Part III vessels then things like proof of title, a survey and all the marking requirements would apply to Part III boats. (Although the offence of removing the markings wouldn't exist!)

The only marking requirement for Part III is:

Marking
95. The person registered as owner of the ship shall ensure that:—
(a)within one month of the date on which the registration of the ship takes effect there is clearly painted on or affixed to a visible external surface of the ship the number of its registration preceded by the letters SSR, and
(b)such marking is effectively maintained and renewed when necessary during the period of the registration of the ship.

 

[prv]

I think you've misread it. That doesn't refer to Part III vessels. They are covered furthe down, Part XI.

They are covered further down, but they're also not excluded from paragraph 31. I imagine that was the intention, but I can't see anything in the text that achieves it.

Pete

 

[GrahamM376]

There's some more info here, clearly stating a registered vessel must have a name -
https://mcanet.mcga.gov.uk/ssr/ssr/notes.asp

7) Ship Names
Ships will not be registered if they have undesirable or offensive names or which might cause confusion; e.g. if prefixed by FV or HMS. Names such as SOS, MAYDAY or LIFEBOAT will not be allowed. Ships must have a name before they can be registered.

 

[Mark-1]

I think you've misread it. (Or maybe I have!) That doesn't refer to Part III vessels. They are covered further down, Part XI. If Part VI applied to Part III vessels then things like proof of title, a survey and all the marking requirements would apply to Part III boats. (Although the offence of removing the markings wouldn't exist!)

The only marking requirement for Part III is:

Marking
95. The person registered as owner of the ship shall ensure that:—
(a)within one month of the date on which the registration of the ship takes effect there is clearly painted on or affixed to a visible external surface of the ship the number of its registration preceded by the letters SSR, and
(b)such marking is effectively maintained and renewed when necessary during the period of the registration of the ship.

I have a horrible feeling we've all been looking at the wrong law. The MSA 1995 covers registration but in a fraction of the detail. However it's newer.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1995/21

 

[Mark-1]

They are covered further down, but they're also not excluded from paragraph 31. I imagine that was the intention, but I can't see anything in the text that achieves it.
Pete

Agree, from context you can tell that VI doesn't apply to Part III boats (if it did Part III would the same as Part I in all significant ways because there are no exceptions for Part III boats. Also things like "refusal" are duplicated. However, as you say that isn't stated anywhere.

But now I'm questioning if the 1993 Act is superseded by the 1995 Act, if so it tells us nothing at all about markings or names.

 

[Mark-1]

Google suggests The Merchant Shipping (Registration of Ships, and
Tonnage) (Amendment) Regulations 1999

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1999/uksi_19993206_en.pdf

Which is hard going, and, I don't think changes anything, certainly doesn't explicitly lift all of Part VI for Part III boats.

Certainly tells us there are a lot of errors!


But does answer my biggest doubt: "The Secretary of State for the Environment, Transport and the Regions, in exercise of the powers conferred by sections 10 and 19 of the Merchant Shipping Act 1995(1), and of all other powers enabling him in that behalf, hereby makes the following Regulations:—".

So the 1993 rules, with the 1999 Amendments are the correct rules to establish marking requirements.

 

[Mark-1]

Agree, from context you can tell that VI doesn't apply to Part III boats (if it did Part III would the same as Part I in all significant ways because there are no exceptions for Part III boats. Also things like "refusal" are duplicated. However, as you say that isn't stated anywhere.

They are covered further down, but they're also not excluded from paragraph 31. I imagine that was the intention, but I can't see anything in the text that achieves it.

Found it!

A small ship is not a ship, except in XII and XIII:

“ship” includes a fishing vessel but does not include a small ship or a bareboat charter ship except for the purposes of Part XII (Miscellaneous) and Part XIII (Offences);

That lifts most, but not all of VI, and makes everything clear.

They couldn't have made that any harder if they'd tried.

Plus, it lifts all of 30, so the OP could legally register his unnamed vessel as Part III and the only marking requirement is SSR number. (Which makes a lot of sense, there's no need to have a Name marking, because there's no need to have a Name. The SSR number is unique and marked on the hull - why would you need a second non-unique identifier?)

 

[GrahamM376]

.........there's no need to have a Name marking, because there's no need to have a Name. )

Read the SSR notes in #55 above - Ships must have a name before they can be registered.