yacht from USA

[bluevelvet]

I intend to buy a yacht from America and I realise that VAT is payable but I would like some advise on the CE markings for today boats.The yacht would sail back to the UK. What laws are out there to stop me sailing here,would insurance be a problem, if so could I not insure it through an American broker.Finally has anyone had a yacht put through for CE markings and if so what where the costs.Boat is a bristol channel cutter,28ft lod 35loa Regards John

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[davidhand]

Be very careful here, and don't take my word or anyone elses on this site. The RYA might be able to help or direct you to someone who can. I checked into it some years ago and as far as I can remember if you have lived outside the UK for at least 12 months and keep the boat for 12 months after your return you are exempt VAT. As far as the CE marking is concerned it can be more complicated. First of all I am not familiar with the "Bristol Channel Cutter", if it was built in the EU then I don't think you will have a problem. If it is US built it will be a real pain in the ass, you need drawings, construction spec. and it will have to be surveyed. As far as insurance is concerned I suspect you may have trouble getting a British company to insure a US registered boat so you would have to register it as a small ship before you left. You can not own a US documented vessel unless you are a US citizen so if you want to insure it in the US you would have to register it at state level, this is OK if you only sail in US waters but could be a problem if you enter a foreign port.
I have just found some paperwork I got from the RYA in 1999 you need to contact them and get an RCD Post Construction Compliance Pack it costs 50 quid. Lots of luck, Dave.

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[qsiv]

You'll need to talk to someone who really knows first hand.

The good people at <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.ceproof.com>http://www.ceproof.com</A> would have to be a first rate starting point

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[NigeCh]

EU Documentation; RCD Compliance; Etc.

I have a source that can sort all this out for you with little or no hassle. Are you buying privately or from Bernie/Kate's brokerage?

If the above is of use, then please email me.

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[jeanne]

One other thing, if you are planning to leave from the southern states, then this is the time to sail. Up to March they get 'Northers', and from June they get Hurricanes.
Florida is the place to buy boats: they go there to retire, buy a boat, and then either die [!] or get too old for sailing, and sell up.
I am sure there is no law to stop you sailing, your troubles only start when you arrive this side. Surely all these regs are not retrospective? A boat built before they were introduced cannot be asked to comply, even if it is E.U. built.
Anyway you will not be the first person to think this way, because of the price difference. Talk to a broker in the states who has sold to a 'limey', and ask for advice, and his customer's address.
I had a friend who had a Contessa 26 on that side of the pond who ended up sailing it back to UK because of the low prices there.

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[AndrewB]

The rules ARE retrospective. With a few minor exceptions, no EU resident can own and use a yacht in the EU unless one of the following applies:

- It was built in the EU prior to June 98;
- It was kept in the EU prior to June 98;
- It is RCD compliant (and CE marked if built post June 98).

Each of these requires documentary proof. At present a fairly light touch is being made applying these rules with older boats; but the same was true of VAT rules in the first few years of operation.

Introduction of the RCD effectively choked off the importation of cheap second hand boats from South Africa and USA. Some argued that that had been part of its 'hidden' agenda.

 

[AndrewB]

Previous threads on this subject have revealed that past paid-for advice from Ceproof has been questionable. This relates to a member of this forum who actually imported a yacht. The RYA will provide independent advice, or I would prefer Nige's contact.

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[kingfisher]

Getting compliance with RCD is not that daunting. It's just one of the hurdles. Remember that all the wiring will probably have to be revised from 110V AC/24V DC to 220V AC/12V DC

Here's the 'official' word:
-RSG Guidelines
-COmments to the RCD-2002 edition
http://europa.eu.int/comm/enterprise/maritime/maritime_regulatory/rc_switchboard.htm

An owner who buys a boat in a third country (whether new or second hand) and sails to EEA territory, or returns an existing boat to EEA territory, is considered to be an importer. At the time of putting into service the provisions of the Directive become applicable under the heading “second hand boat imported from a third country”. The only exemption being that the boat was designed before 1950. It should be mentioned that any Member State usage or navigation requirements would, additionally, be applicable.

POST CONSTRUCTION ASSESSMENT
In accordance with Article 8 of the Directive, the manufacturer shall apply the conformity assessment procedure foreseen in relation to the boat design category and hull length. However, in certain cases, it is necessary for existing boats to be certified, in line with the RCD, after they have been built.
The only possible modules applicable are Module G, Module Aa or Module A. All essential safety requirements are applicable for such boats.
The following boats are included in the scope of the proposal:
· boats that were not constructed, placed on the market or put into service in the present EEA Member State territory prior to the full application of the Directive
· boats built for own use when placed on the market within the first five years of completion
· boats intended solely for racing or experimental craft, subsequently required to be CE marked
Attention is drawn to the responsibility and the legal aspects, having the owner, the importer, or the person putting the craft into EEA service, as applicable, to assume the role of the manufacturer and being identified as the responsible person in this context.
RSG Guidelines offer, in general, a common interpretation of the conformity assessment procedures undertaken by Notified Bodies.
The present chapter gives additional information to assist with compliance with the essential safety requirements of the Directive, exclusively for those existing boats where its application could cause extensive modifications.
1. Boat Design Categories: see chapter E of the Guidelines
2.1. Hull identification: The scope of the requirement is to identify each craft with some indications relevant to the manufacturer, and particularly referred to a serial production. In case such information are missing or unidentified (e.g.: the date of build or model year when the builder is unknown) it becomes the responsible person’s duty to act as though he was the original builder and include such details in the HIN. [note: there's a specific RCD interpretation sheet on the HIN-code structure of imported boats]
2.2. Builder’s plate: the responsible person takes the role of the manufacturer and includes his name on the plate.
2.3. Protection from falling overboard and means of reboarding: see chapter E of the Guidelines
2.4. Visibility from the main steering position: see chapter E of the Guidelines
2.5. Owner’s manual: the responsible person shall ensure that the manual is provided in accordance with chapter E of the Guidelines
3.1. Structure: in order to assess the strength of the structure it is recommended to obtain as much information as possible concerning hull construction and scantlings (e.g.: past acceptability by Certification Bodies or Local Authorities or declaration of conformity in accordance with the Annex III of the Directive)
and any possible empirical data (e.g.: details of voyages undertaken or record relevant to adequate experience of safe operation in an area where the sea and weather condition are not less than those applicable in the Design Category). If there is insufficient documentation to assess construction of the boat or insufficient empirical data to demonstrate adequate strength compliance, then tests may also be carried out. A hull inspection should then be carried out in order to assess satisfactorily the conditions of the boat.
3.2. Stability and Freeboard - 3.3. Buoyancy and Flotation: see chapter E of the Guidelines. In all cases, except for boats of Design Category D, a Notified Body is required to have assessed this Essential Safety Requirement
3.4. Openings in the hull, deck and superstructure: Tightness degree test and strength assessment relevant to the installation of the appliances according to ISO 12216 is required. This test may be omitted provided that a visual inspection is carried out satisfactorily and adequate experience in the use may be demonstrated.
3.5. Flooding: see chapter E of the Guidelines.
3.6. Manufacturer’s Recommended Maximum Load: see chapter E of the Guidelines. The maximum load, crew limit and design category are strictly linked. The relationship between the three items is given in the Stability and Buoyancy Standard
3.7. Liferaft stowage: see chapter E of the Guidelines
3.8. Escape: see chapter E of the Guidelines
3.9. Anchoring, mooring and towing: see chapter E of the Guidelines
4. Handling characteristics: see chapter E of the Guidelines
5.1. Engine and engine spaces: see chapter E of the Guidelines. In the absence of satisfactory information insulating materials may be tested and the relevant results included in the Technical Documentation
5.2. Fuel system: compliance of the fuel system may be assessed by mean of an inspection of the fuel system and parts of it as installed on the lines, including filling, venting and return hoses, connection to the tanks, fuel filters, any shut-off valves or auxiliary equipment. In case of petrol system, non-ignition protected components are required to be replaced in the engine compartment. Fuel tanks are to be inspected as installed to ascertain any corrosion or leaking areas, tests may be required.
5.3. Electrical system: inspection of the installed system including batteries, generators, switches, battery chargers is to be carried out as applicable. Information is required to verify the characteristics of the electrical cables and protection systems
5.4. Steering system: compliance with the relevant standards is to be assessed as applicable. A functional test is required.
5.5 Gas system: a general inspection of the system including gas storage, gas cylinders, piping hoses, pressure devices and ventilation is required, tests may be required.
5.6. Fire protection: see chapter E of the Guidelines
5.7 Navigation lights: see chapter E of the Guidelines
5.8 Discharge prevention: see chapter E of the Guidelines Components listed in Annex II: components not CE certified in compliance with the RCD are to be
inspected according to the relevant standards as applicable. In case such components are found not in compliance they are to be replaced.
Technical documentation: the owner, or the person putting the craft into EEA service, is also responsible to draw up the technical documentation and to retain this for at least ten years.

<hr width=100% size=1>Group of people on the pontoon: skipper is the one with the toolbox.
http://sirocco31.tripod.com

 

[Twister_Ken]

Easy, innit? nm

§

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[freedom44]

I imported a 2nd hand boat from the USA to the UK. I paid VAT in the Azores on a 2 nd hand value I suggested which reflected that I had just crossed the Atlantic . I used Mid Atlantic Services in Horta to broker the deal and complete the arrangements which I highly recomend as the cost is modest and otherwise you will be running around trying to negotiate in Portugese which I suspect is not everyones ideal occupation.
When considering the RCD, the RYA were most helpful. The let out I used was the definition of the EEA, which includes large parts of the Carribean. My boat had visited one of the EEA islands before the "date" (which I cannot remember at the moment) and I obtained an affidavit from the owner confirming this. You are ment to be able to show documentary proof, but this is the best I could get. Not perfect, but it should do the job.
I looked into making the boat CE compliant but immediately realised this was not economical.

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[NigeCh]

There is a loophole in the EU legislation which allows you to import a yacht into the EU without having to fulfill the RCD requirements.

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[PeterGibbs]

Both VAT and RCD compliance are matters of some financial weight. When considering them and how they affect you personally, may I suggest you consider the enforcement angle:

1. VAT; if you have an EU passport and bring the boat into the EU with intent to use it here you must pay VAT. EU citizens have to pay their tax! Dropping into a mid Atlantic island en route from the USA and negotiating a favourable VAT value is a good idea. This will stand up whenever challenged in the future and, should you have to show compiance when selling anywhere in the EU.
The regulatory authorities are hot on VAT and you can expect a call from customs and excise anywhere in the EU. Being caught out is a very costly matter! So VAT is a tax matter, and every EU country wants its share or more!

2. RCD was developed as a safety measure but has the effect of restricting international trade in boats. Now what a surprise! RCD applies to vessels in use in the EU after June 16 1998. If your vessel has no certification from the USA manufacturer in respect of the RCD, and a number now provide this, you can proceed without it. It is not to be confused with the VAT hot potato. RCD should cause you no lost sleep / C & E will not impound your vessel. The problem really arises when trying to sell a VAT paid but non-RCD compliant vessel in the EU in the future; RCD has had the effect of severely reducing the value of non-compliant vessels. If selling at a future date is your intention, you will find it expensive to achieve compliance; it may well pay to sell it elsewhere.


PWG

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[davidhand]

I agree with what you say except there is a loophole that lets returning British citizens in free subject to the conditions I previously enumerated, I have a letter to that effect from HM Customs.

What I am less sure about is say they (HM Customs) let you in for free then you subsequently take your boat over to France you would have no VAT paid documentation to show the French and I think we all know how bloody minded they can be.

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[PeterGibbs]

Re: yacht from USA -further comment

A dispensation from HM C & E could only be granted, I suspect, against an undertaking to re-export the vessel within an agreed timetable. Permanent import by a UK citizen is a taxable event, as is importation for disposal within the EU.

You are completely right about all the other EU countries; arriving with no valid VAT taxation documentation, or appropriate waiver (temporary import by a non-EU citizen) would likely result in impounding the vessel. Ouch!

On the assumption that most of us sail for quiet relaxation of the protoplasm, VAT is one issue that has to be fixed, otherwise every unheralded set of steps on the pontoon (or sudden outboard arrival at the transom) will result in nervous exhaustion!

Final point. As usual, there is an insurance angle with most of these matters. Should damage or loss arise whilst a vessel is impounded for non-compliance, I suspect many brokers would try to argue that the owner contributed to the loss by his negligence! Double ouch!

PWG

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[davidhand]

Re: yacht from USA -further comment

F.Y.I.
H.M. Customs & Excise - Notice 8.
"Sailing your pleasure craft to and from the United Kingdom"
Para 22. Transfer of residence to a place in the E.C.
If you are moving home from a non-EC country to an EC country, including the UK, you may import a vessel free of customs duty and VAT if.
* you have lived outside the EC for at least 12 months;
* you have owned and used the vessel outside the EC for at least 6 months;
* you did not get the vessel under a duty/tax free scheme;
* you declare the vessel to our officer;
* the vessel will be kept for your private use; and
* the vessel is not lent, hired, used as security or sold in the EC for 12 months after relief is granted.

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[Twister_Ken]

Nice Boat

Bumped into the Bristol Channel Cutter webpage by accident (when looking for info on Henderson pumps). Nice boat.

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.samlmorse.com/BCC/Index.htm>http://www.samlmorse.com/BCC/Index.htm</A>

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