Yacht Crewed By Family Hits Growler Near Falkland's

[nct1]

IF I was a betting man,I'd bet they fired some flares off to pinpoint their position for the warship,or orange smoke for the chopper if that's how they were picked up.

Ah yes, the Royal Navy, of course they will not have any radios or radio detecting equipment on their vessels, they would have no EPRIB location information and the helicopter pilot could easily miss that 6 person lurid orange liferaft amongst all that dark blue stuff.

If it was an American or Russian warship, firing a rocket in their direction would leave you with no risk of returning fire at all

 

[Metabarca]

Unusual to have ice that far north?

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Unusual to have ice that far north?

A little, but not so much so as to be really surprising. Big icebergs get that far north every few years; this might well have been a lump from a smaller one.

 

[Ubergeekian]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/derbyshire/8669710.stm

Thank goodness for the EPIRB. Not a time to be relying on Pyrotechnics only.

I could take this a lot more seriously if I didn't know the Profanisaurus definition of "growler".

 

[Deleted member 36384]

.... definition of "growler".

Not a nonce of lexicon then? What a wonderful language we have.

 

[Metabarca]

A little, but not so much so as to be really surprising. Big icebergs get that far north every few years; this might well have been a lump from a smaller one.

Which would make sense since it's now autumn down there.

I must say I ache to go to South Georgia. Got a place in a boat in November, but pricey...

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Which would make sense since it's now autumn down there.

I must say I ache to go to South Georgia. Got a place in a boat in November, but pricey...

Me too - I managed the project that created www.sggis.gov.gs (non-profit, non-advertising, free resource for the forum minders!) and I'm afraid it sounds like you're more likely to get there than I am.

 

[Metabarca]

Nice site! The problem with the trip (apart from the 42 days planned) is departure from Ushuaia, arrival at Stanley, which means two expensive one-way flights on top of the actual cruise. Sigh, dream on!

 

[jonjo]

Me too - I managed the project that created www.sggis.gov.gs

I am impressed and surprised to find advanced ExtJS based web site interactivity demonstrated in such a remote British dependency.

The site contrasts with much of the awfulness of mainstream UK Gov web sites.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Nice site! The problem with the trip (apart from the 42 days planned) is departure from Ushuaia, arrival at Stanley, which means two expensive one-way flights on top of the actual cruise. Sigh, dream on!

I am impressed and surprised to find advanced ExtJS based web site interactivity demonstrated in such a remote British dependency.

The site contrasts with much of the awfulness of mainstream UK Gov web sites.

Thanks for the plaudits!

To be fair to the big gov.uk sites, we don't have to worry about anything like the traffic they have to bear. So, we can use solutions that work for us, but which might not scale. I think we could scale it up, but I just hope it never gets onto the front page of the BBC - we couldn't handle the load.

For those who are interested, the site is entirely built using OpenSource solutions - this was a design criterion. And it didn't cost anything like the cost of the .gov.uk sites - by many orders of magnitude!

Oh, and the site is hosted in Cambridge; I am afraid those who have a picture of a server on South Georgia itself will be disappointed. The bandwidth available on South Georgia itself is not much better than a good dial-up connection.

Another site you might like to see (not mine but a colleague's) is www.polarview.aq

 

[Woodlouse]

Ah yes, the Royal Navy, of course they will not have any radios or radio detecting equipment on their vessels, they would have no EPRIB location information and the helicopter pilot could easily miss that 6 person lurid orange liferaft amongst all that dark blue stuff.

If it was an American or Russian warship, firing a rocket in their direction would leave you with no risk of returning fire at all

You have two options. Either you can wait for the SAR effort to find you using RDF alone, or you can wait until they are within 15 miles or so, let off a flare and get found straight after. Surprisingly a red parachute flare is visible from much further away than a life raft, and when you are in a sinking ship half way between South Georgia and the Falklands every minute counts. I'd have flares to guide the SAR the last 15 miles, rather than waiting for them to simply find me. And I have a feeling you would too.

 

[nct1]

You have two options. Either you can wait for the SAR effort to find you using RDF alone, or you can wait until they are within 15 miles or so, let off a flare and get found straight after. Surprisingly a red parachute flare is visible from much further away than a life raft, and when you are in a sinking ship half way between South Georgia and the Falklands every minute counts. I'd have flares to guide the SAR the last 15 miles, rather than waiting for them to simply find me. And I have a feeling you would too.

In this case, firing the flares before you could see the SAR vessle is irrelevant, because if you are relying on flares alone, you will not waste them, you would have to wait until you can see the boat, and the chances are a grey battleship will see an orange liferaft before you can see it.

You are of course forgetting the third way, which is using a radio. I would much prefer to use the radio, receiving / giving regular updates from the rescue services,and when in sight, giving a hand compass bearing (or HH GPS readout) than be relying on pyrotecnics, and I have a feeling you would too.

Did you see the BBC sailing in the 60s programme last night, facinating the bravery of Chichester etc seeing that they were out of communication of any sort for weeks on end, (which seemed to affect Chichester by the time he reached Australia) and reliant on previous centuary navigation methods. Flares would have been an absolute must for those chaps.

But today, I can tweet my current thoughts on life from almost any point on the globe, it's a different ballgame now.

 

[DogWatch]

I think you misunderstand the point of view. No one says that you don't need an EPIRB if you have flares. What people say is that owning an EPIRB does not make flares redundant.

I'll bet the yacht had a flare pack as well as the EPIRB.

But you do need an EPIRB and liferaft and and and to cross 1.6 miles to the Isle of Wight on your 45ft yacht. A trip we would wonder if we should save the hassle and go by dinghy up north.

Soft pansy southern sailors are diluting this pass-time.

 

[Kilter]

But you do need an EPIRB and liferaft and and and to cross 1.6 miles to the Isle of Wight on your 45ft yacht. A trip we would wonder if we should save the hassle and go by dinghy up north.

Soft pansy southern sailors are diluting this pass-time.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

You are of course forgetting the third way, which is using a radio.

Indeed, pyrotechnics seem dangerous enough when let off on steady dry land with, eye protection, a bucket of sand, full oilies and leather gloves on. The idea of letting off a flare in a heaving liferaft in the freezing southern ocean seems fraught with danger. Possibly sea sick from the motion of the LR. Apart burns what if you fatally puncture the LR? Much safer to use a handheld vhf or a laser flare or strobe light, even a torch at night or a signalling mirror if it's sunny. I'm sure there are countless other alternatives.

As it happens I suspect a rescuer would find a liferaft without too much difficulty based on nothing more than an Epirb. I've seen RNLI blokes identify a single boat in a packed marina with an errant Eprib going off. If they can find that a LR in an empty ocean won't be too tricky.

Still, each to their own. We all make our choices, I respect other peoples and they should respect mine. (Actually I say that, but if someone tried to fire off a flare in an inflatable LR in preference to one of the totally safe and more effective alternatives I suspect they'd be quickly overpowered by their fellow survivors.)

 

[daveyw]

But you do need an EPIRB and liferaft and and and to cross 1.6 miles to the Isle of Wight on your 45ft yacht. A trip we would wonder if we should save the hassle and go by dinghy up north.

Soft pansy southern sailors are diluting this pass-time.

Totally agree. If you believe in the free spirit of adventure, next time you want to order from Amazon, why not do it thro here http://www.jesterinfo.org/recommendedreading.html Jester Challenge get a small commission

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Totally agree. If you believe in the free spirit of adventure, next time you want to order from Amazon, why not do it thro here http://www.jesterinfo.org/recommendedreading.html Jester Challenge get a small commission

Thanks for that list, reminded me of some cracking stuff already read and gave me the heads up for a few that look worth aquiring.

PS: Callahan (Adrift) and Lewis (Icebird) both fired flares directly within sight of potential rescuers. Neither were seen, Lewis was burned. I wonder if Callahan would have swapped all his flares for an Eprib? I bet he would.

 

[Polarsailor]

Flares may be a good idea..

I was actually on HMS Clyde when they picked up the Hollinsclough family. When we arrived sea conditions were rough, 6-7 sea state and even a few miles away we couldn't see the yacht on radar or visually. Carl lit a smoke flare on the yacht and they were seen easily. Even with 2 EPIRBS it was well worth having flares on board.

For the record growlers are relatively small bergs of very dense hard ice derived from glaciers not sea ice. They are so dense they float very low in the water often barely breaking the surface, hence they are difficult to see. They are often very clear ice as well.

The family are all well and now back in the Falklands. A close call that could have been much worse. If you are planning on heading down this way EPIRBS are a pretty good idea!

 

[pugwash60]

GMDSS etc. presupposes that you don't subscribe to the 'take to the dinghy and drown like a gentleman theory' of not wanting to bother others with predicaments one has got into, for fun, of ones on volition. If you carry all this stuff,. and there's nothing wrong with it, but, you are saying that you aren't prepared to fully carry the risk yourself.
The argument for leisure mariners to be certificated then becomes stronger, as one isn't just risking ones own life and relying on ones own resources.

 

[flaming]

PS: Callahan (Adrift) and Lewis (Icebird) both fired flares directly within sight of potential rescuers. Neither were seen, Lewis was burned. I wonder if Callahan would have swapped all his flares for an Eprib? I bet he would.

For some reason the anti flare lobby that populate these boards seem to have it in their heads that the choice is either flares or EPIRBs.

It's not, they do different jobs and their presence or not on your boat should be evaluated separately.

For the reccord, the vast majority of my sailing is done with both on board, and I am not in a hurry to throw either away!