Yacht Charter Companies and RYA/ICC Qualifications

AMCD300

AMCD300

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I am looking into chartering a yacht later this year in Vounaki, Greece (I know...I've read the threads on Greece and the Euro) or Croatia, but keep coming up against terms and conditions that require a second person on board to be RYA Comp Crew qualified. Are all charter companies like this? :confused:

If so, it would mean me having to get SWMBO Comp Crew trained beforehand which, although not a problem wrt our long term sailing education plans, is a bit of a blow for our plans this year.

Andy
 
AMCD300 said:
I am looking into chartering a yacht later this year in Vounaki, Greece (I know...I've read the threads on Greece and the Euro) or Croatia, but keep coming up against terms and conditions that require a second person on board to be RYA Comp Crew qualified. Are all charter companies like this? :confused:

If so, it would mean me having to get SWMBO Comp Crew trained beforehand which, although not a problem wrt our long term sailing education plans, is a bit of a blow for our plans this year.

Andy
Click to expand...

We went with Kiriacoulis in May, starting out from Athens, and they asked for the licences (their words not mine) for me and my "co-skipper". It was booked through Sailing Holidays, who only asked for my certs, but when on base we were asked for two.

Would they have let us out without one? I don't know, we were able to furnish two ICC's and no further questions were asked, but they did ask the question....
 
AMCD300 said:
I am looking into chartering a yacht later this year in Vounaki, Greece (I know...I've read the threads on Greece and the Euro) or Croatia, but keep coming up against terms and conditions that require a second person on board to be RYA Comp Crew qualified. Are all charter companies like this? :confused:

Andy
Click to expand...

Having been a past RYA Cruising Instructor at the lovely base of Vounaki I know all about the ICC: having sold about 100 or so when I was there in 2010.

The Greeks are "anal" about paper work I recall, considering they generally don't collect/pay taxes it is beyond me to why, but an employee got sacked because he let out a boat without the proper paperwork. So, with this you must have the ICC. I would double check with Sunsail about the additional crew because they allow "day" yachts with the proper paperwork, with only one person having their ICC/equiv.

I hope this below clears up a few points, I believe Sunsail only needs one person BUT the other person can do the ICC when they arrive (it is actually aLOT of fun) with other people in the same position as you. Best advice give sunsail a call and say that you would like to do the week or two and your wife/partner is happy to do the ICC on arrival.

Competency Requirements:

CROATIA: The skipper needs to have a navigational certificate + VHF license
GREECE: The skipper needs to have a navigational certificate (NO VHF license).
BVI: The skipper needs to submit a sailing resume to the yachting companies. The Resume will be sent out well in advance before the trip. In short words, sailing experience within the last years on similar size yachts suffice. External skipper needs sailing certificate as well.
 
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Flying Penguin said:
We went with Kiriacoulis in May, starting out from Athens, and they asked for the licences (their words not mine) for me and my "co-skipper". It was booked through Sailing Holidays, who only asked for my certs, but when on base we were asked for two.

Would they have let us out without one? I don't know, we were able to furnish two ICC's and no further questions were asked, but they did ask the question....
Click to expand...

Hmmm - that's what worries me. It's a long way to go to be turned away. I am looking again at the Terms and Conditions of Sail Ionian. They do not mention the need for a 'co-skipper', instead they recommend an 'assisted charter' scheme where someone comes aboard with you for the first day and helps with yacht familiarisation, med mooring etc - I learned to sail in the med so I understand what a drama that can be, but SWMBO has not really been out on the water much and it would be good to have someone help me get us all underway safely and show her (and the children) the ropes. That would help me avoid any 'unnecessary tension' on day one :rolleyes:

Thanks for the help

Andy
 
AMCD300 said:
I am looking into chartering a yacht later this year in Vounaki, Greece (I know...I've read the threads on Greece and the Euro) or Croatia, but keep coming up against terms and conditions that require a second person on board to be RYA Comp Crew qualified. Are all charter companies like this? :confused:

If so, it would mean me having to get SWMBO Comp Crew trained beforehand which, although not a problem wrt our long term sailing education plans, is a bit of a blow for our plans this year.

Andy
Click to expand...

Does it have to be Vounaki?

Sail Ionian (http://www.sailionian.com) have bareboat chartered to me without a single qualified person on board. (I'd be surprised if the majority of Greek firms needed qualifications of any kind.)

Sail Ionian are a great firm. New boats every few years, terrific service and no fuss.
 
AMCD300 said:
I am looking into chartering a yacht later this year in Vounaki, Greece (I know...I've read the threads on Greece and the Euro) or Croatia, but keep coming up against terms and conditions that require a second person on board to be RYA Comp Crew qualified. Are all charter companies like this? :confused:

If so, it would mean me having to get SWMBO Comp Crew trained beforehand which, although not a problem wrt our long term sailing education plans, is a bit of a blow for our plans this year.

Andy
Click to expand...

We've chartered in Croatia and Greece and only one ICC or RYA qualified person is required. No-one has ever mentioned a second qualification.

Richard
 
Yes, it is now common to require the skipper to have a certificate such as an ICC. The "official" requirement is that the skipper must be competent, but it does not define what that is. Over the years there have been many ways of evidencing competence. The first time I chartered it was in the form of a fancy little certificate printed on a John Bull printing press by the charter company!

The decision on what is acceptable is left to the local port police who have to stamp the charter permit and increasingly they are asking for more formal certificates including an ICC. This is probably because more and more people have them plus pressure to ensure safety as more and bigger boats go on the fleet.

The implementation of regulations varies from time to time and place to place, from lax to, for example once in my case being required to report in person with my ICC to the Port Police in Corfu with my ICC before the permit was issued. They accepted my wife's Yacht Club membership card as proof of her competence as crew.

Croatia is a litle more structured in that there is an official list of acceptable qualifications (even if some of them are not really correct), but as in Greece the final decision is with the local official who is permitted to carry out his own test of competence.

So, be guided by your chosen operator who will advise what is required by his local officials.
 
Jamesuk said:
Having been a past RYA Cruising Instructor at the lovely base of Vounaki I know all about the ICC: having sold about 100 or so when I was there in 2010.

The Greeks are "anal" about paper work I recall, considering they generally don't collect/pay taxes it is beyond me to why, but an employee got sacked because he let out a boat without the proper paperwork. So, with this you must have the ICC. I would double check with Sunsail about the additional crew because they allow "day" yachts with the proper paperwork, with only one person having their ICC/equiv.

I hope this below clears up a few points, I believe Sunsail only needs one person BUT the other person can do the ICC when they arrive (it is actually aLOT of fun) with other people in the same position as you. Best advice give sunsail a call and say that you would like to do the week or two and your wife/partner is happy to do the ICC on arrival.

Competency Requirements:

CROATIA: The skipper needs to have a navigational certificate + VHF license
GREECE: The skipper needs to have a navigational certificate (NO VHF license).
BVI: The skipper needs to submit a sailing resume to the yachting companies. The Resume will be sent out well in advance before the trip. In short words, sailing experience within the last years on similar size yachts suffice. External skipper needs sailing certificate as well.
Click to expand...

James - that is excellent advice, thank you. Actually, being able to do the ICC there would be good although in practice what does this entail? In the UK an RYA Comp Crew is a week long course costing around 500 GBP. Would I be expected to charter a yacht for 1500 GBP for the first week to get her through the ICC before I have to pay another 1500 for a week's sailing as a couple? Seems a little steep to me if this is the case.

You say Greece requires a 'navigation certificate' - it this just covered by RYA DS/ICC? I know it is best to get my ICC from the RYA on the back of the Day Skipper Qualification.

Thanks again. Andy
 
Yes you need an ICC in Greece, Turkey and Croatia which also requires a VHF licence. Sometimes they want to know the experience of another person -- answer very experienced , blah, blah. In the Caribbean you just need a debit card.
 
I recently went to the Ionian Islands with my dad who has no qualifications and his sailing is restricted to classic dinghies. There was no issue of only one person having a qualification, however the first thing we did upon leaving the marina was practise man overboard under engine, it's always nice to know they can pick you up if you fall overboard!

Nearly everybody in the med will ask for an ICC whether it's the law or not.

Andy - you can do your ICC in the UK, depending on experience it can be done in a weekend. Feel free to give the guys at One Stop Sailing a call: www.onestopsailing.com they can offer advice if you would like it.
 
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Mark-1, RichardS, Tranona - thank you all for the sound advice.

I think my best approach is to look further afield than Vounaki maybe, but first and foremost I will contact the companies directly to ascertain the ins-and-outs.

RichardS, I am leaning to Sail Ionia at the moment but will keep my options open. I am looking at Vounaki because I can drive to Bari in Italy from my home in Naples, catch the overnight ferry to Patra and drive down the coast to Vounaki. Any further and I will have to look at flights which are really expensive from Naples. I'm paying almost 500 GBP to get to Cyprus from Rome in September to sail as it is... :eek:

KellysEye - got it ;)

alasdair - We live in Italy unfortunately, but SWMBO may feel more comfortable doing her CC/ICC with a UK company. Will bear it in mind - thanks.
 
Speak to Neil at SailIonian. They are an RYA approved centre. I do not know whether they are allowed to test for the ICC, but the test is pretty straightforward if you have the experience. In the UK it usually takes half a day and typically costs under £100.
 
Mark-1 said:
Does it have to be Vounaki?

Sail Ionian (http://www.sailionian.com) have bareboat chartered to me without a single qualified person on board. (I'd be surprised if the majority of Greek firms needed qualifications of any kind.)

Sail Ionian are a great firm. New boats every few years, terrific service and no fuss.
Click to expand...

+1

Give Sail Ionian a call and talk to them. They are a small "family" outfit and very good at what they do. One of their RYA instructors is a friend of mine and in situations like yours he (and others like him) spend the first day (or two if there are issues) on board just to make sure you'll be ok. They're based in Vliho Bay just down from Nidri on Lefkas.
 
little_roundtop said:
+1

Give Sail Ionian a call and talk to them. They are a small "family" outfit and very good at what they do. One of their RYA instructors is a friend of mine and in situations like yours he (and others like him) spend the first day (or two if there are issues) on board just to make sure you'll be ok. They're based in Vliho Bay just down from Nidri on Lefkas.
Click to expand...

I certainly will do - thank you. It is nice having recommendations from people who know what is involved. One can only gain experience through....having experiences! :D

Having read the Sail Ionian pages again I see that SWMBO could do her ICC in a single day - if this is the case I need to find out if we could combine this into our charter week as part of a deal, and get an assisted sail for a day or two so we can get some help as a family the first time out together. As we intend, in the long-term, to buy our own yacht and then go cruising when we retire I want us to start off on the right foot, and not rush a charter holiday that leaves us with nothing but bad experiences and the family not exactly buying into the 'yottie' lifestyle.

I have to apologise to James - I though you were suggesting that SWMBO had to do the full CC there, not the one day ICC...my bad.
 
Tranona said:
Speak to Neil at SailIonian. They are an RYA approved centre. I do not know whether they are allowed to test for the ICC, but the test is pretty straightforward if you have the experience. In the UK it usually takes half a day and typically costs under £100.
Click to expand...

Wilco - thank you. Seems like the best way to start.
 
My two closest friends bought a boat with Sunsail (based in Croatia) a couple of years ago. Previously he'd been sailing (and chartering) regularly in Greece and Turkey with no paperwork. However, when he signed on the dotted line with Sunsail as a boat owner he was required to do his DS qualification before he'd have been allowed to take out his own boat!
He used one of his Sunsail weeks for a Winter break in Lanzarote to do his DS and for SWMBO to do Comp Crew. As it worked out she did DS too.
 
Highndry said:
My two closest friends bought a boat with Sunsail (based in Croatia) a couple of years ago. Previously he'd been sailing (and chartering) regularly in Greece and Turkey with no paperwork. However, when he signed on the dotted line with Sunsail as a boat owner he was required to do his DS qualification before he'd have been allowed to take out his own boat!
He used one of his Sunsail weeks for a Winter break in Lanzarote to do his DS and for SWMBO to do Comp Crew. As it worked out she did DS too.
Click to expand...

Par for the course. As noted above Croatia is "stricter" than Greece. I had exactly the same issues as I owned the charter boat but under the terms of the charter licence the boat has to be on the Greek register so even the owner is required to meet the charter skipper requirements.
 
AMCD300 said:
James - that is excellent advice, thank you. Actually, being able to do the ICC there would be good although in practice what does this entail? In the UK an RYA Comp Crew is a week long course costing around 500 GBP. Would I be expected to charter a yacht for 1500 GBP for the first week to get her through the ICC before I have to pay another 1500 for a week's sailing as a couple? Seems a little steep to me if this is the case.

You say Greece requires a 'navigation certificate' - it this just covered by RYA DS/ICC? I know it is best to get my ICC from the RYA on the back of the Day Skipper Qualification.

Thanks again. Andy
Click to expand...

IF you can teach your wife 3 or 4 knots, Get her to study the Rules of the road and a bit of navigation and get her in to the Day skipper Theory book which can be read in its entirety over coffee, then when she arrives on the Sunday evening, She may be able to do the ICC assessment on the Monday, but honestly I know she does not need to have the ICC because for example "The Yacht week" charters yachts on the basis that "only" one person has the certificate, and there concept charters from many different companies on the basis of a 50 yacht Flotilla.

Oh and you dont need to go for 2 weeks. One week including ICC will do, if she wants to do it.

I think you just need "two people" on board for charter and only one has to have a certificate.

Enjoy your holiday.

Vounaki is a zero level area, "you might not get much wind" but from experience you might also get a force 6 or in April or October a force 9. Ha those were fun days.
 
Jamesuk said:
IF you can teach your wife 3 or 4 knots, Get her to study the Rules of the road and a bit of navigation and get her in to the Day skipper Theory book which can be read in its entirety over coffee, then when she arrives on the Sunday evening, She may be able to do the ICC assessment on the Monday, but honestly I know she does not need to have the ICC because for example "The Yacht week" charters yachts on the basis that "only" one person has the certificate, and there concept charters from many different companies on the basis of a 50 yacht Flotilla.

Oh and you dont need to go for 2 weeks. One week including ICC will do, if she wants to do it.

I think you just need "two people" on board for charter and only one has to have a certificate.

Enjoy your holiday.

Vounaki is a zero level area, "you might not get much wind" but from experience you might also get a force 6 or in April or October a force 9. Ha those were fun days.
Click to expand...

James - that is entirely manageable. It has been great hearing from you regarding you experiences of Sail Ionian. Not sure about a force 9 in OCtober (as this may be the earliest we can get there) but nothing ventured nothing gained..... :)
 
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