Tranona
Well-Known Member
So all these people here who know far more about the subject than you do are telling stories?
Yacht Charter Companies and RYA/ICC Qualifications
- Thread starter AMCD300
- Start date
So all these people here who know far more about the subject than you do are telling stories?
RichardS
N/A
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
This feels like deja-vu.......but you already knew that didn't you!
We need an FAQ. We get the same **** over and over.
Kellyseye even posted on the Croatia thread so he knows damn well they accept just about anything down to open power boat quals and shorebased quals.
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
Between the Croatian Govt and some random strangers I know which source I attribute most credibility to.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
However, the "myth" never existed except in your head based on your lack of understanding of the real situation, which of course became clear to you once you had found the original documentation.
The fact remains that you need to present qualifications to charter a boat or get a cruising permit in Croatia, although you may be offered the alternative of a local test of your competence.
This, as many people have told you, is also increasingly the case in Greece in relation to bare boat chartering, although not enforced by an "official" list of acceptable certificates.
So your myth that you do not need qualifications to charter a boat in Greece is comprehensively "debunked".
The fact remains that you need to present qualifications to charter a boat or get a cruising permit in Croatia, although you may be offered the alternative of a local test of your competence.
This, as many people have told you, is also increasingly the case in Greece in relation to bare boat chartering, although not enforced by an "official" list of acceptable certificates.
So your myth that you do not need qualifications to charter a boat in Greece is comprehensively "debunked".
MissIsle
Well-Known Member
I am looking into chartering a yacht later this year in Vounaki, Greece (I know...I've read the threads on Greece and the Euro) or Croatia, but keep coming up against terms and conditions that require a second person on board to be RYA Comp Crew qualified. Are all charter companies like this?
If so, it would mean me having to get SWMBO Comp Crew trained beforehand which, although not a problem wrt our long term sailing education plans, is a bit of a blow for our plans this year.
Andy
Why not go on flotilla instead the first time? Or go villa-flotilla where you stay ashore for the first week & have the option to do the RYA Competent Crew during 4 of those days, you could join your other half, partly for fun & partly as a brush up in bows to mooring, & you'd be set to charter anywhere next year.
We did this years ago with Falcon Sailing, I think they may be Neilson or someone else now, look up The Athos Hotel - Nidri.
AMCD300
Well-Known Member
I did look at that option and may consider that as well. As I said, I am more concerned about us all learning the ropes (ahem) and not just taking the fam along for the ride so this is a good way to do that. Thanks. Ultimately SWMBO will let me know what she is more comfortable with........
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
No myth, eh?
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2865329&postcount=7
Which as you know is not the same as needing an ICC.
You mentioned Neil at Sail Ionian. Call him, ask him if you can hire one of his boats without an ICC, or indeed any qualification. He'll tell you nothing is required, but then you know that already.
Ok, I try to avoid tackling the person rather than the post but I really need to get this off my chest:
Time and time again you've show yourself capable of saying something a) You know to be untrue. b) You know can and will be proved to be untrue with a simple link. It seems to me that you really think that if you post stuff that's wrong over and over again *some* of the time it won't be picked up on and you'll get away with it. It's like you play the numbers game. 90pc of your nonsense is immediately corrected with facts from others but you feel it's worth your time because you'll get the 10pc through. It's so frustrating. I spend so much time searching for facts to correct you. I really don't understand what motivates you. You NEVER post links to outside sources. Take Croatia. You say you need an ICC to visit Croatia. You know damn well it can be disproved in 30 seconds. Do you post any evidence? No, you just say it knowing that 70pc of the time you'll get it through unchallenged. And many times you do. It drives me crazy.
Pull yourself together. Fact check your posts, and if you make a claim back it up with some evidence.
Rant over.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Glad the rant is over - what is it about stones and glass houses? Not sure you need any help from me.
How many times do you rush to "do something" when you misread what people say as you seem to have difficulty to deal with anything that is not black and white, or read things in context? Your techniques of ignoring anything that does not fit your ideas or selecting only the words that you choose leads you into the wild goose chases of your own making.
Now is a particular case in point. You state an absolute about a situation where there is not an absolute. It has been explained to you many times by many people that practice in Greece is variable, but the majority of operators require evidence of competence. That is the kind of information useful to people who are thinking of chartering a boat there - not your blanket "there is no requirement" as they quickly find it is not true.
So it is difficult to see the value of you constantly making statements that do not reflect reality and are of little value to people genuinely looking for information. But maybe offering something of value is not important to you.
Baggywrinkle
Well-Known Member
Just to put the record straight, the requirements for Croatia are published on the Croatian Governments web site here ....
Ministry of Maritime Affairs, Transport and Infrastructure.
http://www.mppi.hr/default.aspx?id=668
On the left hand side under Nautics you'll find everything you need to know ... including the list of accepted qualifications.
http://www.mppi.hr/UserDocsImages/novo-TABLICA ENGLISHMoU (2) 4_12.pdf
Interesting reading.
e.g. At item 69 we have ....
"United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Royal Yachting Association (RYA)
Day Skipper Shorebased Certificate
competence to operate:
- boats used for private purposes,
- bareboat chartered boats,
- yachts used for private purposes up to 30 GT,
- bareboat chartered yachts up to 30 GT,
in internal waters and territorial sea of the Republic of Croatia and waters accessible from the sea, under the condition of holding an appropriate national or foreign certificate for operating radio station if there is a radio-telephone VHF station or a GMDSS-VHF station on the boat or yacht."
However, in practice they want to see an ICC. It is the safest option if you don't want to spend your time arguing with an official (in what to them is a foreign language) about the regulations in their own country.
Believe me, I've been involved in arguments about Soujourn Tax, I was in the right, I lost and paid it twice. It was then refunded by the charter company.
So despite what it says, I'd take an ICC to Croatia (or anywhere else) every time.
Ministry of Maritime Affairs, Transport and Infrastructure.
http://www.mppi.hr/default.aspx?id=668
On the left hand side under Nautics you'll find everything you need to know ... including the list of accepted qualifications.
http://www.mppi.hr/UserDocsImages/novo-TABLICA ENGLISHMoU (2) 4_12.pdf
Interesting reading.
e.g. At item 69 we have ....
"United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Royal Yachting Association (RYA)
Day Skipper Shorebased Certificate
competence to operate:
- boats used for private purposes,
- bareboat chartered boats,
- yachts used for private purposes up to 30 GT,
- bareboat chartered yachts up to 30 GT,
in internal waters and territorial sea of the Republic of Croatia and waters accessible from the sea, under the condition of holding an appropriate national or foreign certificate for operating radio station if there is a radio-telephone VHF station or a GMDSS-VHF station on the boat or yacht."
However, in practice they want to see an ICC. It is the safest option if you don't want to spend your time arguing with an official (in what to them is a foreign language) about the regulations in their own country.
Believe me, I've been involved in arguments about Soujourn Tax, I was in the right, I lost and paid it twice. It was then refunded by the charter company.
So despite what it says, I'd take an ICC to Croatia (or anywhere else) every time.
lustyd
Well-Known Member
Sunsail Vounaki gave me a 30' dayboat knowing full well I'd never sailed a yacht in my life - they said it was just like the dinghy they had taught me to sail that week!
Solitaire
Well-Known Member
I have just read through the requirements. Confusing or what! According the their regs I can helm a vessel up to 500 gross tons ( that is a real big bugger) and a holder of a Day Skipper theory certificate can operate a vessel up to 30 gross tons.
I agree with you, take an ICC and avoid the debate. Saying that, all new Day Skipper practical certificates are now photo based documents, so they may appear more official in the future. Plus they have language translations on the reverse which the old paper tickets did not.
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
...and a holder of Powerboat Level 2 can bareboat charter.
Solitaire
Well-Known Member
Melody
Well-Known Member
Out of interest did they question you on colregs or anything to do with safety?
One of the reasons I have never particularly enjoyed sailing in the Ionian is the poor standard of seamanship of many (but not all of course) of the people on bareboats and flotillas there. Some of them are a danger to themselves and others.
We help our students charter yachts here in the Athens area so I can tell you what is required here. The regulations for most charter companies that we deal with are that one person must have either a certificate (RYA Day Skipper is fine; you don't need an ICC) or sign a declaration that they have experience sailing a similar sized yacht, and a second person must have either a certificate or sign a form to say they have experience crewing. If it is a larger yacht, over 45ft, they usually want two people with recognised skippers certificates, unless one of them has something like a commercial Yachtmaster in which case they assume he/she could sail it alone.
The Port Police have the ultimate authority to allow a yacht out on charter so it does vary from place to place as to how strict they are. Each year recently they seem to have been tightening up a bit and I've heard it rumoured that this is due to pressure from insurance companies.
Jamesuk
Well-Known Member
Sunsail are bloody brilliant in that respect. Which one tho do you remember? Tinkerbell, Peter Pan, Baloo?? To name just a few
Jamesuk
Well-Known Member
At least they will have actually driven a boat
Dont be so hard on the punters who do the flot holiday. Imagine going to a driving school and instead of having an instructor in the car with you, you have one in a lead car and you have to just get on with it and learn. I think it is wonderful that people can go out on a 200,000 yacht and learn sailing in quiet waters.
I had clients who would go to Vounaki having never sailed before do a 3day flot training course with me based comfortably out of the beach resort. Then the next week they get handed over to a controlled environment with a professional young skipper on board a lead boat who is more than happy to assist in anyway with sailing and parking up. There is also a hostie and an engineer.
Perfect deal
Sunsail my address for marketing funds is.......
Jamesuk
Well-Known Member
Yes but you might not well probably wont get insurance so in practice you cannot. Dont quote me tho
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
At least they will have actually driven a boat
I wasn't having a pop at Power Boat II holders. I was merely making the point that there's no need to pay £40 every 5 years to sail in Croatia, because they say they only require one out of a vast range of qualifications (most of which are a one-off cost and don't expire) of which the ICC is only one.
Good news.
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