Yacht carrying two people collides with Sandbanks Ferry

[LittleSister]

Whilst the chain ferry has right of way, I've found that they use a bit of common sense. The 'ball' goes up as the ramp is raised and boats then adjust speed and a gap starts to appear. Light flashes on ferry and it starts to move and clanks its way across.
When there is not much boat movement I've seen / had it wait for a short period as boats bash against a spring tide or get swept along.

The chain ferry did not have right of way, nor were the signals about the ferry's departure the same or so obvious, at the time of the previous accident with the XODs. Both these things were changed as a result of the report on that accident.

 

[Boathook]

The chain ferry did not have right of way, nor were the signals about the ferry's departure the same or so obvious, at the time of the previous accident with the XODs. Both these things were changed as a result of the report on that accident.

I thought the ferry always put a ball up on departure. A bit daft a chain ferry having to give way to a boat able to move else where.

 

[LittleSister]

I thought the ferry always put a ball up on departure. A bit daft a chain ferry having to give way to a boat able to move else where.

The ferry displayed a ball and flashing white light when underway, but the report IIRC highlighted that it would be useful to have a signal that it was about to depart.

In the case of the 2001 XOD incident, the ferry could, and did, move elsewhere, albeit unsuccessfully, while the XODs were becalmed and at the mercy of the tide.

The reason for the ferry (previously) having to give way was historical. Reading between the lines of the report, there would have been considerable objection to the introduction of the ferry. At that time - 1920s - the harbour had far more commercial traffic, and much, much less leisure traffic. Engineless boats would have been commonplace, I imagine. So there was concern that the proposed ferry (a commercial enterprise) would disrupt and endanger existing traffic. The ferry was to be on chains and engine driven (initially steam IIRC) and therefore would be better able to manoeuvre (forward and aft) and keep clear than some of the existing commercial vessels then regularly using the channel. The potential disruption to be caused by the introduction of the ferry was minimised by giving priority to traffic using the channel. The 2001 incident with a collision between four XODs and the ferry caused this priority to be reviewed.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

The signal that the ferry is about to move is that it has stopped loading cars, and is putting it’s ramp up. You keep an eye on all that for the last mile of approach if you have any sense. What you can do with no wind and no engine is of course more limited.

 

[lustyd]

I wouldn't want to try and enter under sail except in the most benign conditions, including slack water

Entering under sail isn't difficult, the problem is the ferry having right of way. The first time I had to enter under sail (Sunsail yacht so engine had broken down) we called up and asked permission. The ferry waited for us and then the RNLI “rescued” us. The second time, same boat, same issue after we thought we’d fixed it we didn’t call up as we didn't need or want a rescue but still made it past the ferry before picking up a mooring under sail.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

We sail in any time there's enough wind, it’s not that narrow. It requires a bit of planning as you aim for the channel, just thinking about where the ferry is, and where it might be when you cross.

 

[[70521]]

Good to see they are well fendered.

I wonder if they were charged as foot passengers or motor vehicle for the to/from Sandbanks?

Last time I entered Poole some eejit in a power boat dodge between us and the Channel Island supply vessel, then nip onto our berth as 105 tonne of sailing vessel was reversing into to it. The marina team were flabbergasted when the chap refused to move as his partner was arriving with fish and chips!

 

[Tranona]

We sail in any time there's enough wind, it’s not that narrow. It requires a bit of planning as you aim for the channel, just thinking about where the ferry is, and where it might be when you cross.

I have been doing it for nigh on 50 years - every time I want to escape the harbour even if it is only to check on the seahorses in Studland. You are right with a bit of planning and forethought it is not difficult. What sometimes catches people out is that the direction of flow of the tide, particularly on the ebb is not parallel with the channel. Easier with the flood although coming in from East Looe the strength of the flood when you meet the main channel can catch you by surprise. Conversely I often come in on the last of the ebb having taken the whole of the tide from the Solent and the boat almost stops when it hits the main ebb rushing up the Swash. Always wise to have the engine running just in case.

 

[winch2]

Re, the "Chain ferry not having right of way" Does that mean then that it can come to a full stop mid channel on a mid tide spring ebb, hanging on its chains?

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Re, the "Chain ferry not having right of way" Does that mean then that it can come to a full stop mid channel on a mid tide spring ebb, hanging on its chains?

I have never seen it in Sandbanks, but it must be so. The Cowes one of course, that happens every spring ebb unless they put a pusher boat downtide to help it across.

 

[LittleSister]

Re, the "Chain ferry not having right of way" Does that mean then that it can come to a full stop mid channel on a mid tide spring ebb, hanging on its chains?

I believe the ferry does now have 'right of way', it having been changed as a result of the investigation into the 2001 collision between the ferry and several XODs.

In that incident, the ferry stopped part way across, then reversed, to keep clear of one group of XOD's, but unfortunately that then put it in the path of another group of XODs behind who were becalmed and were being swept towards it by the tide.

Whilst the chain ferry has right of way, I've found that they use a bit of common sense. The 'ball' goes up as the ramp is raised and boats then adjust speed and a gap starts to appear. Light flashes on ferry and it starts to move and clanks its way across.
When there is not much boat movement I've seen / had it wait for a short period as boats bash against a spring tide or get swept along.

. . . But you still need to anticipate their departure, have a backup plan for if they leave. And it’s not hard to detect when that is likely.

At the time of the XOD incident, the ferry did not have right of way, so after loading and raising the ramp it might well be waiting for what the ferry skipper thought the best time to leave, given the approaching traffic. The MAIB identified that it was not clear at the time to approaching transiting boats when or whether the ferry would be starting away from the ramp, and recommended that consideration should be given to whether the signals operated at that time were adequate.

The XOD fleet were clearly concentrating on racing, not on the ferry.

The XOD fleet moved to edge of the channel to give way to an incoming large sea ferry, but this manoeuvre put them in the wind shadow of the shore and left them becalmed and being swept towards the chain ferry by the tide.

The race had been timed to avoid the scheduled incoming ferry, but unbeknown to the race officer the ferry was running late.

 

[Boathook]

Poole VTS operates on VHF ch14. Can be quite busy with all the trip boats, ferry's, cargo ships, etc using Poole.

 

[winch2]

Interesting. Only been to Poole twice, many yrs back, but my goodness did we faff about wondering how best to time it. In the end I concluded dead slack water would give me max boat control in case it all went south. Its quite an eye opener watching yachts clattering out mid tide with limited boat control....or vice versa.

 

[Boathook]

Going in and out of Poole I don't worry what the tide is doing. More concerned about the ferry's and cargo ships. The tides do run strong, especially at springs so a reliable engine is needed !

 

[Chiara’s slave]

We hit our highest ever water speed in the entrance, against s spring ebb. 19.6kn on the GPS, 24kn on the log. 20 knots of SE wind and some surfable waves. Very glad the chain ferry had just parked up, there wasn’t any stopping, nor much steering. Fortunately, almost everyone else had thought better of trying it. We will certainly not try it again. Mrs C had several litters of kittens on the way in, as they say

 

[Boathook]

We hit our highest ever water speed in the entrance, against s spring ebb. 19.6kn on the GPS, 24kn on the log. 20 knots of SE wind and some surfable waves. Very glad the chain ferry had just parked up, there wasn’t any stopping, nor much steering. Fortunately, almost everyone else had thought better of trying it. We will certainly not try it again. Mrs C had several litters of kittens on the way in, as they say

I'm sure that the ferry would wait for you They have certainly waited for me as the tide swept me past.

 

[dunedin]

Going in and out of Poole I don't worry what the tide is doing. More concerned about the ferry's and cargo ships. The tides do run strong, especially at springs so a reliable engine is needed !

What speed does the tide run through the narrows at Poole?

Just came through the Cuan Sound today, which can run up to 7 knots. Wasn’t peak springs but over 5 knots - and as well as a smaller ferry, need to make a rapid turn 90 degrees or so to literally get between a (Cleit) rock and a hard place with the tide pushing sideways over the dangers. But a regularly used channel also, if not as busy as Poole.

 

[lustyd]

What speed does the tide run through the narrows at Poole?

Probably about 4kt based on the 0.5 over ground i managed on my old boat

 

[Chiara’s slave]

4.4kn according to my instruments. About the same as Hurst. Not the fastest tides on the planet obviously, but there is a lot of traffic, both leisure and commercial, and it’s not very wide. You are almost certain to have to use your colreg knowledge in there, unless the weather is so horrible everyone else is avoiding it. We wondered why we were alone, now we know.

 

[Tranona]

4.4kn according to my instruments. About the same as Hurst. Not the fastest tides on the planet obviously, but there is a lot of traffic, both leisure and commercial, and it’s not very wide. You are almost certain to have to use your colreg knowledge in there, unless the weather is so horrible everyone else is avoiding it. We wondered why we were alone, now we know.

Yes 4 knots is about right on springs - as you say about the same as North Channel. Difference is that the distance the tide runs hard is shorter as is the elapsed time as the strong ebb and flood is concentrated into roughly half the time.