Wow! Now your crew are actually employees - or so says a lawyer!

[jerrytug]

I suggest RKJ makes ' Two Years Before The mast ' by RH Dana essential reading for wannabe's, with an exam at the end to show they realise they're actually in luxury compared to those who have gone before !

+1 totally, and why didn't someone on board give her a mind-altering kick in theXXXX( or the politically correct modern equivalent) to calm her down and put her sea lawyer inclinations on the back burner?
I think it will all be hilariously laughed out of court, in fact I would put money on it.

 

[Sandgrounder]

+1 totally, and why didn't someone on board give her a mind-altering kick in the XXXX ( or the politically correct modern equivalent) to calm her down and put her sea lawyer inclinations on the back burner?
I think it will all be hilariously laughed out of court, in fact I would put money on it.

Glad to see you have recovered from your earlier crassness (not).

 

[Sandgrounder]

Lurking here and was thinking to myself that an Employment Tribunal is not a nice place to be and as a fellow employer, I am sympathetic to RKJ who after all, was not there (although is responsible for the actions of his staff, etc).

However, the law is there to help find the facts and get to a fair verdict. As a lawyer the lady will clearly know the process and both financial and emotional costs of such a trial. If she feels it necessary to go through it, then she must feel she has a claim worth pursuing. There is a strict procedure that both parties will have needed to be followed before she was allowed to lodge a claim. RKJ's team clearly didn't think her claim merited an informal or confidential solution.

Only when all the facts are out can anybody judge. I have no idea about the claim or its merits and its not for me to judge.

For once, I feel that a court of law is exactly the right place for this dispute to be settled. Public, fair and once decided and it will put a legal framework around the status of paying clients on a charter boat.

Nicely balanced post. Clearly doesn't fit here; are you sure you don't want to add some gross sexist abuse or maybe a little dose of prejudgement.

 

[zzyyxx]

I suggest RKJ makes ' Two Years Before The mast ' by RH Dana essential reading for wannabe's, with an exam at the end to show they realise they're actually in luxury compared to those who have gone before !

This wasn't clear from the article, so it was just because she was a bit of a wimp? Is there more info somewhere?

 

[Seajet]

RKJ's are no ordinary charter boats, this is not a Sunsail wreckit & bodgit job bouncing around the near tideless sunny Med; it's a life changing adventure, and not for the faint hearted no matter how many £40K they have to splash out.

A very little reading would have informed this sea lawyer she was not in for a picnic, instead she has resorted to her dubious profession; what's the betting in a very short time she'll be regaling friends with ' When I was on the Round The World Yachting Challenge '...

 

[jerrytug]

Typical of people who find things don't go their way and want revenge.
Typical of a lawyer to try to work outside the spirit of the law. (all allegedly, of course)

I hope she gets nowhere.

Correct, anybody who disagrees is either a XXXX-whipped 'new man', or a lawyer themselves.
RK-J will hold a similar view.

 

[mainsail1]

I suppose my old fashioned view is that it should not be possible to take legal action against anyone just because you have had your feelings hurt for whatever reason. I find it beyond belief that we are now so sensitive and easily upset in the UK when in other parts of the world people are wounded and die with no redress on a daily basis. How about putting our energies into stopping this before we get too precious?

 

[Seajet]

Anyone but lawyer parasites would agree with you.

 

[Talulah]

I suspect this action may steam roller in to something much bigger.
I wouldn't be surprised if other past female clients were contacted by both sides to paint a much bigger picture.
Clippers policies and procedures are going to come under so much scrutiny.

 

[Sandgrounder]

RKJ's are no ordinary charter boats, this is not a Sunsail wreckit & bodgit job bouncing around the near tideless sunny Med; it's a life changing adventure, and not for the faint hearted no matter how many £40K they have to splash out.

A very little reading would have informed this sea lawyer she was not in for a picnic, instead she has resorted to her dubious profession; what's the betting in a very short time she'll be regaling friends with ' When I was on the Round The World Yachting Challenge '...

Ian, you are making an eyewatering number of very large assumptions here on the basis of absolutely no evidence. When it all comes out you may end up looking rather foolish but until it all comes out absolutely none of us know.including you. I suppose given your disregard to objective evidence relating to A22's that should come as no surprise to anyone

 

[jerrytug]

I suppose my old fashioned view is that it should not be possible to take legal action against anyone just because you have had your feelings hurt for whatever reason. I find it beyond belief that we are now so sensitive and easily upset in the UK when in other parts of the world people are wounded and die with no redress on a daily basis. How about putting our energies into stopping this before we get too precious?

+ lots well said!

 

[JumbleDuck]

+1 totally, and why didn't someone on board give her a mind-altering kick in the XXXX ( or the politically correct modern equivalent) to calm her down and put her sea lawyer inclinations on the back burner?

Nothing like a bit of sexual violence to shut up victims of harassment, eh?

 

[Sandgrounder]

Nothing like a bit of sexual violence to shut up victims of harassment, eh?

+1. Truly disgraceful contributions from that poster. I wonder how he would like it if someone suggested that his wife or daughter etc. Still as I've always said here you should never silence them but just let them keep talking and they will show their true colours.

 

[jerrytug]

Nothing like a bit of sexual violence to shut up victims of harassment, eh?

To quote myself, "or the politically correct modern equivalent".

'Hyperbole' is in the dictionary, between 'hen-pecked' and 'hysterical'. Check it out.

 

[zzyyxx]

RKJ's are no ordinary charter boats, this is not a Sunsail wreckit & bodgit job bouncing around the near tideless sunny Med; it's a life changing adventure, and not for the faint hearted no matter how many £40K they have to splash out.

A very little reading would have informed this sea lawyer she was not in for a picnic, instead she has resorted to her dubious profession; what's the betting in a very short time she'll be regaling friends with ' When I was on the Round The World Yachting Challenge '...

I think we all know that and maybe she did too or do you know something else?

 

[dom]

...why didn't someone on board give her a mind-altering kick in the XXXX ( or the politically correct modern equivalent) to calm her down...

I think the "modern" idea is that violence against women is a bad idea; not sure how novel an idea that is really. Funny thing is, most "men" knew that already.

 

[jordanbasset]

Reading the posts from some members I do not find it hard to believe, if this thread is a representative sample of those who go sailing, that she did suffer harassment, some disappointing comments and a couple that are nasty and brutish, not becoming of gentlemen.
Whether she is entitled to be called an employee is a different issue

 

[Tranona]

Whether she is entitled to be called an employee is a different issue

Exactly. Don't understand how some here can have such polarised views about the lady's character when the Tribunal is being asked solely to determine whether her relationship with Clipper is an employment one. If it is then the law allows her to pursue for harassment, bullying, discrimination. If it does not find in her favour then she will need to look for other perhaps less clear areas of law to pursue her case.

Despite this, some here seem to have decided the outcome of both the Tribunal and any subsequent action without hearing the evidence. One wonders why we have a legal system if guilt (or otherwise) can be determined by a few posters on an obscure forum!

 

[alant]

You 'may' be right. But it seems to me that your opinion is based solely on conjecture and a general faith in the Clipper.

On the other side we have a respectable lady who alleges serious abuse.

It might well be that your general faith in Clipper is warranted, but that something serious has gone wrong here. And if it has, surely justice should be done, no?

My "faith", is based solely upon my contacts with them & their crews, over several years.
They are a very 'professional organisation', with crew who are eager/keen/adventurous.

Any offshore boat, can only be run efficiently, with the full input of those onboard. Their individual lives, depend upon teamwork, so find it difficult to understand how (if) bullying/vindictiveness, was (is) allowed to happen. Any 'friction', seriously depletes the efficient running of the boat. It is also a race, with all onboard, wanting to win, so why would they deliberately cause a problem?

 

[alant]

She isn't, it would seem.

But only after the event!