Would you take a Bavaria 32 across the Atlantic

[Simondjuk]

The boat was not a J&J design but Doug Peterson. Bavaria's attempt to compete with the First range of racer/cruisers.

On checking it seems they both had a hand in it. The overall shape very closely resembles the J&J Bavs, so I imagine that was the starting point. Which might in turn suggest that the Doug Peterson input was to take the J&J base design and modify it to improve the performance.

All of which only really serves to paint an even worse picture. The lacking final design made it past three separate interested parties. Not good.

 

[BrianH]

You may well be right that previous grounding damage was never proven, especially since I seem to recall that the keel itself was never recovered. It's a long time ago and my memory is hazy on the detail, so I may be leading myself to false conclusions based on the recollection that on inspection, 14 of the 19 Match 42s in the fleet belonging to the accident boat's charter company displayed varying degrees of impact damage on their keels.As I said before, I'm not defending Bavaria or J&J, they clearly got it very wrong on the Match 42. I just had in mind that the keels were bad, but needed a bit of a whack before they simply fell off.

You have been influenced by the dissembling publicity of Bavaria on that incident - exactly as their PR intended. None of the participants of the Mire Mare racing fleet had any grounding or signs of impact damage on their keels. From the first-hand report of Sailing HU:

The boats were launched at Koper, from which they were transported to the main harbor, to Biograd by Croatian and Hungarian crew. On the way, the keel of one of the boats was damaged at the harbor of Umagi, but the damage was corrected, so the boat arrived to Biograd in perfect condition. This boat did not participate on the Mira MareCup, during the whole event she was in the harbor. There was not any other damage on none of the boats of the fleet, so the Adriatic Challenge started the season with excellent boats.

13 out of the 20 boats participated on the Mire Mare Cup. The regatta started on Saturday. On Monday there was strong wind, but the weather conditions were normal for the completion of the stage. The accident, the coming off of the keel happened at Monday night, couple minutes after 10 o’clock. The boat capsized and the 6 members of the crew fall into the water. 5 of them were luckily saved, the 6th died.​

Affidavits from all the surviving crew members confirmed no grounding occurred. I remember, but cannot find any reference in my files, that Bavaria subsequently retracted their earlier statement that there had been a grounding. Too late, it would appear, for those not interested in the true facts - or those with an agenda.

I repeat, there is no parallel of the Match series with standard production Bavaria cruisers. With reference to the original question, no, I would not care to sail the Atlantic in a Bavaria 32. But if my friend proposed it with his Bavaria 44 Ocean, I would happily agree to do so.

 

[Simondjuk]

You have been influenced by the dissembling publicity of Bavaria on that incident - exactly as their PR intended. None of the participants of the Mire Mare racing fleet had any grounding or signs of impact damage on their keels. From the first-hand report of Sailing HU:

The boats were launched at Koper, from which they were transported to the main harbor, to Biograd by Croatian and Hungarian crew. On the way, the keel of one of the boats was damaged at the harbor of Umagi, but the damage was corrected, so the boat arrived to Biograd in perfect condition. This boat did not participate on the Mira MareCup, during the whole event she was in the harbor. There was not any other damage on none of the boats of the fleet, so the Adriatic Challenge started the season with excellent boats.

13 out of the 20 boats participated on the Mire Mare Cup. The regatta started on Saturday. On Monday there was strong wind, but the weather conditions were normal for the completion of the stage. The accident, the coming off of the keel happened at Monday night, couple minutes after 10 o’clock. The boat capsized and the 6 members of the crew fall into the water. 5 of them were luckily saved, the 6th died.​

Affidavits from all the surviving crew members confirmed no grounding occurred. I remember, but cannot find any reference in my files, that Bavaria subsequently retracted their earlier statement that there had been a grounding. Too late, it would appear, for those not interested in the true facts - or those with an agenda.

I repeat, there is no parallel of the Match series with standard production Bavaria cruisers. With reference to the original question, no, I would not care to sail the Atlantic in a Bavaria 32. But if my friend proposed it with his Bavaria 44 Ocean, I would happily agree to do so.

Interesting. Thanks. So, Bavaria we're ballsy and crass enough to promulgate an entirely unfounded story that several of a fleet of boats over which they had no control had impact damage to their keels? How in the heck did they ever think that they were going to get away with that? Lift all the boats and the truth would be there for all to see. Or rather, for all not to see, in respect of there being no evidence damage.

Of course, if I were being pedantic and choosing to overlook the error in translation, I could point out that Sailing HU saying, "There was not any other damage on none of the boats of the fleet," tells us that every single boat had damage.

One last question if I may. The implication in the text you quote above is that the boats were brand new and just delivered prior to the keel loss occurring on their first outing. Is that correct? I can't remember much of the detail, a lot that was written at the time wasn't in English and most webpages on the subject are now dead, so I'm having difficulty in finding information to refresh my memory.

 

[BrianH]

So, Bavaria we're ballsy and crass enough to promulgate an entirely unfounded story that several of a fleet of boats over which they had no control had impact damage to their keels? How in the heck did they ever think that they were going to get away with that?

I had not heard that Bavaria claimed any other than the foundered yacht had previous keel impacts - I think they would not be so dumb. Dumb they were to make such a claim by extrapolating the story that one of the fleet did sustain keel damage in Umag without checking which one but they were in panic mode and, being charitable, jumped to the wrong conclusion it was that boat that later lost its keel.

One last question if I may. The implication in the text you quote above is that the boats were brand new and just delivered prior to the keel loss occurring on their first outing. Is that correct?

That is correct, the entire fleet was just newly delivered. As with all new boats for Croatia (and Greece) Bavaria deliver by road to Koper in Slovenia and there they are rigged, fuelled and watered then sailed to their destinations rather than using the road system south of there.

I can't remember much of the detail, a lot that was written at the time wasn't in English and most webpages on the subject are now dead, so I'm having difficulty in finding information to refresh my memory.

Most of the detail was in the German yachting press, perhaps because Bavaria is German and Hungary is a neighbour with close ties. Also, many southern Germans keep their boats in the closest sea, the Adriatic, or charter there. I speak German and the topic was discussed down to the smallest detail by my German-speaking friends in my Italian marina.

You are right about little being available on the web - incredible, isn't it? Very different from at the time of the accident when it was all over. I kept bookmarks that slowly started to return 404 when invoked, especially the Hungarian sailing pages with all the photos of bilges with just washers under the keel-bolts directly on the hull lay-up - don't let them tell you that everything will be there forever ...

 

[JumbleDuck]

er, but they didn't?

Google "Bavaria Yachtbau Bain Capital". Bain lost around a billion euros and had to hand the company to its two main creditors. Bustness in all but name.

 

[caspar2]

personally, no.