Would you have stayed on board?

[lustyd]

So what do you do, or where do you go when you're at Tobermory and there's a forecast gale out of the NE?

There wasn’t though, that’s my point. You can idly propose all sorts of whataboutery, but we’re not discussing potentials we’re discussing a specific storm last week.
If you need help planning a different scenario, start another thread.

 

[Sea Change]

Reality is that this conundrum is part of the joy (and fear) of cruising West Scotland. The Clyde is easy enough, there are storm proof marinas regardless of wind direction and wind shift. But once out west there isn't anywhere that is 100% storm proof, perhaps with the exceptions of Stornoway marina and the basin at Crinan. One has to be prepared for the necessity to tough it out at anchor, as unpleasant and risky as that can be - or swap for a narrowboat maybe.

For marinas, you may be correct (although Kyleakin might merit a mention, if you're able to find space).
But for anchorages, the Outer Hebrides are littered with perfectly sheltered pools with clay/mud bottoms. I'd choose one of those in preference to an exposed set of pontoons.

 

[Supertramp]

I have different criteria for selecting a bolt hole. I would not place myself anywhere near a lee shore on such a night for the simple reason that time to grounding is so short in the event of a mooring.

Interesting point. I have comfortably weathered several strong winds in open bays with 90+ degree exposed arcs. But only when the wind direction was not going to vary much (not near the centre of a passing depression). Swell can become an issue. Try anchoring in Dale Bay, Milford Haven in a F8 SW!

If the wind is really going to shift 180 degrees or more (as it did in Floris SE to NW) then the landlocked options hold more appeal. But the reality is if your anchor drags or fails you are not going to have time or space to recover. Loch Aline does have space.

OK smarty pants, where would you have gone to shelter in the area, assuming the pontoons at Kerrera and Tobermory were full (as they often are with any breezy forecast)?

A very good question, and good local knowledge would make a big difference. Puilladobhrain and Oronsay N of Loch Drumbie are well sheltered but there is not enough room to swing with 50m of chain out. Given enough warning I might hide well up such inlets and try to rig shorelines. At least if you come to grief the damage should be less with no fetch.

In Floris, I used Moidart, which was gusty due to hills and the tide flow caused some shearing around but good holding in shallow water - I ruled Arisaig out due to the veer to NW, and Mallaig didn't bear thinking about.

 

[NormanS]

There wasn’t though, that’s my point. You can idly propose all sorts of whataboutery, but we’re not discussing potentials we’re discussing a specific storm last week.
If you need help planning a different scenario, start another thread.

Sorry, I didn't realise that you were a forum moderator.

 

[Mark-1]

OK smarty pants, where would you have gone to shelter in the area, assuming the pontoons at Kerrera and Tobermory were full (as they often are with any breezy forecast)?

....and the forecast included some West so if there was a hint of North (WNW) in it then we're back to onshore funnelling and being sideways onto it on a pontoon would be hell.

 

[Minerva]

I already covered this further up the thread. Tobermory is a far better anchorage for the conditions forecast and experienced that day and only two hours away.

I’ve anchored in tobermory a few times. Options are;

1. outside the main mooring field in 25-30m. (But too deep for the winds expected imo as most would struggle to get 3x depth)
2. tucked right in to the waterfall under the trees (little to no swinging space in the expected conditions with the full rode out)
3. Anchored between calf island and Arros (wind can funnel right up the sound of Mull through it - lovely spot though)

So no, not sure I would choose Tobermory in the conditions. The pontoons even with a moderate breeze out of the North are Rolly Polly, lline snatching uncomfortable.

With the forecast expected, I too would have went to Loch Aline, anchored in 7m and had 10x depth out and a second back up snubber too!

 

[lustyd]

(little to no swinging space in the expected conditions with the full rode out)

Why are you putting full rode out next to woodland in a well protected anchorage with flat water and very little wind?

Armchair sailing at its best.

That anchorage would have had maybe 10kt apparent throughout.

 

[LittleSister]

Except of course for the Forum Accident Investigation Board.

Assuming makes an ass of u and......ming.

Situation normal 113 posts and still no one knows what really happened.

It would only have been 110 if you didn't keep piping up to tell us to pipe down!

Good advice on where to anchor.

However most of the rest of the thread is the usual suspects speculation, imagination and wild guessing.

Adds to the entertainment though if it's not taken seriously.,

I have sailed a lot in that area. The worst weather I ever encountered up there was on a Submarine alongside in Coulport. As OOD i got extra shore lines on, called the Captain to keep him informed and had an interesting night.

On the contrary, I think it's more than entertainment. I think it's very useful to consider what one would do, or not do, faced with a similar sort of challenge, and to weigh up a range of different views on the matter.

And we do all need to exercise our hobby-horses from time to time.

 

[capnsensible]

It would only have been 110 if you didn't keep piping up to tell us to pipe down!



On the contrary, I think it's more than entertainment. I think it's very useful to consider what one would do, or not do, faced with a similar sort of challenge, and to weigh up a range of different views on the matter.

And we do all need to exercise our hobby-horses from time to time.

If only people would do that to learn from rather than making stuff up and point scoring. It's like a Parish Council Election drive.

 

[LittleSister]

If only people would do that to learn from rather than making stuff up and point scoring . . .

But that's one of my few pleasures in life!

 

[Minerva]

If only people would do that to learn from rather than making stuff up and point scoring. It's like a Parish Council Election drive.

I’ll have you know I was sailing with the pope the other week and he said I was the most accomplished yachtsman he’s known.

 

[dunedin]

Why are you putting full rode out next to woodland in a well protected anchorage with flat water and very little wind?

Armchair sailing at its best.

That anchorage would have had maybe 10kt apparent throughout.

What you reckon there was only 10 knots of breeze in Tobermory during Amy? Dream on. Perhaps TobermoryPhil will be on to tell us what it was in reality - if he didn’t blow away.
Minerva described the anchoring situation in Tobermory perfectly in #126. Ideal if on the pontoon and didn’t swing NNW, but often full in a storm and not a place to anchor as too deep.

 

[dunedin]

Good advice on where to anchor.

However most of the rest of the thread is the usual suspects speculation, imagination and wild guessing.

Adds to the entertainment though if it's not taken seriously.,

I have sailed a lot in that area. The worst weather I ever encountered up there was on a Submarine alongside in Coulport. As OOD i got extra shore lines on, called the Captain to keep him informed and had an interesting night.

Coulport is in the Clyde, which as GEM43 says in the post #118 above you says is a dawdle with lots of big well sheltered marina - and one not very well sheltered one.
Massively different from the NW - especially if past Ardnamurchan (though that was not the case here).

Overall the strategy of anchoring in Loch Aline seems to have been a reasonable one - boat survived, and if it had gone ashore on the mud would probably have had little damage and recoverable at next spring tide.
Whereas quite a number of of boats sadly got driven ashore on much rockier shores elsewhere having come off moorings - quite a lot in the Clyde, though perhaps more boats on moorings there.
Looks to have been a reasonable outcome in the end for the yacht, and certainly better than many other boat owners.
And thanks again to the folks from the RNLI crews who helped - not just during Amy but throughout the year (probably less shouts during Amy than many other quieter days during the summer when more boats sailing).

 

[NormanS]

Why are you putting full rode out next to woodland in a well protected anchorage with flat water and very little wind?

Armchair sailing at its best.

That anchorage would have had maybe 10kt apparent throughout.

You may not be aware that Loch Aline is also surrounded with trees.

 

[noelex]

That anchorage would have had maybe 10kt apparent throughout.

During a named storm ?

 

[Supertramp]

All this and no-one's mentioned an anchor!

️

 

[noelex]

This example is simple; it shows how inadequate ground tackle for the admittedly appalling conditions can lead to problems.

The skipper was skilled, or perhaps lucky, together with help from the RNLI, they managed to escape without destroying the yacht and escaped with only a small injury. These storms are serious, and I think he did many things right with an ultimately reasonable outcome.

It is easy in retrospect to analyse what should have been done. Suggesting anchoring nearby where the wind speed would only have been "maybe 10 knots" in a named storm has no basis in reality.

It sounds like they dragged slowly and ultimately held just before sustaining damage This suggests that a minor improvement in their ground tackle would have prevented any issue and avoided calling out the brave men/women from the RNLI. I suspect/hope given this scare, the skipper is exploring this option.

 

[Bouba]

This example is simple; it shows how inadequate ground tackle for the admittedly appalling conditions can lead to problems. The skipper was skilled, or perhaps lucky, together with help from the RNLI, they managed to escape without destroying the yacht and escaped with only a small injury. These storms are serious, and I think he did many things right with an ultimately reasonable outcome.

It is easy in retrospect to analyse what should have been done. Suggesting anchoring where the wind speed would only have been 10 knots has no basis in reality.

It sounds like they dragged slowly and ultimately held just before sustaining damage This suggests that a minor improvement in their ground tackle would have prevented any issue and avoided calling out the brave men/women from the RNLI. I suspect/hope given this scare, the skipper is exploring this option.

The hand is a small part of the body….but an injury to it is debilitating and painful…it’s hard to think of another body part who’s injury could be worse for a lone yachtsman in a storm

 

[noelex]

The hand is a small part of the body….but an injury to it is debilitating and painful…it’s hard to think of another body part who’s injury could be worse for a lone yachtsman in a storm

Agreed. The injury is hard to quantify from the brief report. This would have at least complicated the problem.

The best strategy is to avoid these problems. This is not easy in these extreme conditions, but we are blessed with modern equipment that can at least mitigate the risk.

 

[Bouba]

Agreed. The injury is hard to quantify from the brief report. This would have at least complicated the problem.

The best strategy is to avoid these problems. This is not easy in these extreme conditions, but we are blessed with modern equipment that can at least mitigate the risk.

We also don’t know if he had the hand injury for months before he went sailing…but it’s hard not to think that it happened with the anchor chain when he was trying to reset