Would you have stayed on board?

[dunedin]

I agree...but want to add more what ifs.....does the yacht have an electric winch ?...did the hand injury prevent the yachtsman from retrieving his anchor and therefore not reset it ?....did the Coxswain think that if the yacht can’t be anchored then it’s at risk ?

An electric anchor windlass is about as much use as a chocolate teapot in a Storm like Amy. Few windlasses will pull a yacht into a wind above 20-25 knots without requiring a lot of engine assistance - impossible to do singlehanded.
And if the lifeboat couldn’t tow the yacht, the yacht itself attempting to motor upwind even two up would probably fail to get the anchor up unless find a major lull.
I suspect that may have been a large part of the issue seeking to tow. The yacht would probably have at least 50m of chain out, probably more (I would have had 70m out in that depth in such a storm). It would be impossible to tow unless the lifeboat could hook the anchor chain and pull with that.
Skipper might be unable to release the bitter and and drop the chain in such conditions.

 

[Mark-1]

But in the specific circumstances and location it is far from clear what use a tow would have provided, except to help reset the anchor further out.

I would regard that as a "rescue", and it sounds like that's what happened in this case.

 

[Mark-1]

It would be impossible to tow unless the lifeboat could hook the anchor chain and pull with that.

Which begs the question, "Was there a tow at all?".

 

[dunedin]

With all respect, Dunedin ..... I don’t claim to know that local area.……….....but I would have, if asked, tell them not to take advice off Dunedin....because I’m from New Zealand...and I bloody well know where Dunedin is

On a lighter note …….

I fear Bouba that the Dun Edin you refer to is a mere colonial copy, nowhere near the main thing.
New Zealand is a lovely place. But the early colonists tended to rename local places with nostalgic names reminding them of favourite places - even when the new locations were completely different. Perth and St Kilda in Australia, Boston and (New) York in America, for example.

I know very well where the original Dun Edin is/was, though the original hill fort has been extensively extended and built over the centuries. And nowadays the nearby town, now city, is better known than the original fort.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

… Storm Amy started off with the wind from the SE, and quite suddenly veered round to the NW. …

That was not my experience in the area. No sudden NW veer. Much further north I can see the sudden veer you state. The wind was in the SE, then S then SSW. On the Saturday it went WSW. I went home Saturday afternoon, so did not track direction after that.

 

[ylop]

I have never seen someone beat a point to death as much as you.....everything I said came from the only evidence we have....everything you say comes from reading between the lines

You accused a man of a crime. A crime that doesn't seem to exist. I'm happy for you guys to hypothetically dissect what did or didn't happen - but suggestions that telling the coxswain of a lifeboat that you don't want their help or you believe their suggestion in not the best idea should be a crime I will robustly defend.

 

[ylop]

The other thing I wonder about is the yachtsman’s hand injury....did it require the life boat crew to go abord to secure the tow line ?

As Oban is my "local" (or local to the boat at least) lifeboat station I've read a lot of their press releases. If they put a crew member on board they usually tell you.

If towing within the Locha was tricky, trying to tow through the narrow gap would be massively more so. And what then?

My interpretation was that they had identified a suitable mooring within Loch Aline and were planning to tow to there. It would as you say be treacherous to tow through the narrows in those conditions. (the press release said an "found an empty anchorage" but that doesn't really make sense unless that anchorage would in some way be preferable).

The hard working Oban RNLI lifeboat was out on two consecutive nights just ahead of Amy with yachts dragging in strong winds (but not severe storms) - the other difference being they were close to if not on solid rock, rather than mud - one near Kerrera and one by Lismore.
The lifeboat crew did an incredible rescue of the second skipper apparently from a boat already ashore on the rocks,

I believe that the Kerrera and Lismore incidents were for the same vessel (same as eash other not same as Lochaline).

Also, I don’t know if the boat did end up dragging ashore.

If it did its not been posted on social media and the RNLI haven't been back out so I think its very unlikely. Curiously I don't think there were any boats blown ashore on the "West of Argyll" but half a dozen within the Clyde... are west coast moorings better made/maintained?

Skipper might be unable to release the bitter and and drop the chain in such conditions.

Releasing the bitter end would seem like the worst possible suggestion in the circumstances - you then become 100% reliant on the tow.

Which begs the question, "Was there a tow at all?".

Interesting - perhaps only to try and take the weight off the anchor and it never moved from there?

Nobody has asked the most important question - which anchor did he have?

 

[lustyd]

Interesting that some on here have looked at a chart, and have said that the OP shouldn't have chosen to be in Loch Aline for the forecast wind.

I was in there a few weeks ago, was on board further south during the storm, and saw a video of the loch on the night in question taken by friends at the marina.

It was definitely not a suitable anchorage given the forecast.

 

[Juan Twothree]

I have to admit that I'm surprised a Shannon wasn't able to tow a moderately sized yacht upwind, even in these winds.
I appreciate that conditions were extreme and that lifeboats are not tugs but I would have expected that to be possible (twin 650hp diesel waterjets).

I wasn't there, so I don't know the finer details, however the version I have heard is that the lifeboat ingested a lot of weed, so had very little drive.

The coxswain back flushed the jets and restored full thrust, but was reluctant to try towing again.

The skipper chose to stay aboard as the anchor was now holding, and the lifeboat stood by for an hour until the wind eased.

 

[Minerva]

I believe that the Kerrera and Lismore incidents were for the same vessel (same as eash other not same as Lochaline).

Is that so? - I did see the Facebook posts and think that both those shouts appear to be for the same make of uncommon boat.

**Just read the comments - yes same boat, two call outs in as many days, two sets of rocks and now a sunken boat. Blimey!

 

[Mark-1]

Is that so? - I did see the Facebook posts and think that both those shouts appear to be for the same make of uncommon boat.

**Just read the comments - yes same boat, two call outs in as many days, two sets of rocks and now a sunken boat. Blimey!

What make?

 

[ylop]

I wasn't there, so I don't know the finer details, however the version I have heard is that the lifeboat ingested a lot of weed, so had very little drive.

The coxswain back flushed the jets and restored full thrust, but was reluctant to try towing again.

The skipper chose to stay aboard as the anchor was now holding, and the lifeboat stood by for an hour until the wind eased.

It’s interesting how the choice of language changes the tone. The coxswain was reluctant and the skipper chose v’s the press release where the yachtsman refused. Thats not a criticism of the person writing the press release - they were either working on second hand info or they’d been on a shout for a very lively evening.

 

[noelex]

Loch Aline has a great mud substrate and 360° protection, so it was an ideal choice, but unfortunately, many boats drag in the reported conditions of winds over 65 knots in the anchorage. Dragging in strong conditions at night is always fraught with danger. The skipper did a good job avoiding damage (although there was some injury), but I bet some better anchoring gear is on his shopping list .

The RNYL also deserves praise. The UK has the best system in the world for readily accessible, quick-responding rescue facilities for small craft. This is an example of that in action. Their advice to abandon the vessel was completely justified, but their willingness to try alternatives, by towing the vessel, shows they are prepared to liaise with the skipper to try and do what is best. Many rescue authorities are far more authoritarian, and this does not always result in the best outcome.

 

[Supertramp]

An electric anchor windlass is about as much use as a chocolate teapot in a Storm like Amy. Few windlasses will pull a yacht into a wind above 20-25 knots without requiring a lot of engine assistance - impossible to do singlehanded.
And if the lifeboat couldn’t tow the yacht, the yacht itself attempting to motor upwind even two up would probably fail to get the anchor up unless find a major lull.
I suspect that may have been a large part of the issue seeking to tow. The yacht would probably have at least 50m of chain out, probably more (I would have had 70m out in that depth in such a storm). It would be impossible to tow unless the lifeboat could hook the anchor chain and pull with that.
Skipper might be unable to release the bitter and and drop the chain in such conditions.

Agree. With competent crew to motor and take load off the anchor it should be possible, but I'm not sure in 45knts+. I know I cannot raise my anchor when singlehanded beyond 30 knots. And even more so with 60m out. The swinging circle you need with 60m out is something to behold. Previously wide open spaces start to feel tight.

Faced with another event like Floris or Amy, my goal would be to anchor where I could deal with all likely wind directions, avoid wind funnels and consider laying out a second anchor, if only as a reserve in case No1 fails. Doing anything on deck in such conditions is a major ordeal.

 

[Mark-1]

avoid wind funnels

Wise advice, but as an infrequent visitor to that part of the world I feel avoiding wind funnels is easier said than done and guessing which way it's going to funnel can be a bit tricky.

 

[NormanS]

I was in there a few weeks ago, was on board further south during the storm, and saw a video of the loch on the night in question taken by friends at the marina.

It was definitely not a suitable anchorage given the forecast.

It's a totally enclosed sea loch. No matter what direction the wind is, there is always good shelter in the loch. It's a case of not being in the wrong place. For example, probably the best shelter is at Miodar, the bay immediately to starboard within the entrance. If or when the wind goes round to the NW, Miodar is the worst place. In common with lots of anchorages, in severe weather you have to be prepared to move .

 

[dunedin]

…….

The skipper chose to stay aboard as the anchor was now holding, and the lifeboat stood by for an hour until the wind eased.

So that seems consistent with the facts, and therefore staying on board was in the end the right decision, with the boat remaining afloat at anchor and able to proceed when the storm abated.
A good outcome.

 

[lustyd]

It's a totally enclosed sea loch. No matter what direction the wind is, there is always good shelter in the loch. It's a case of not being in the wrong place. For example, probably the best shelter is at Miodar, the bay immediately to starboard within the entrance. If or when the wind goes round to the NW, Miodar is the worst place. In common with lots of anchorages, in severe weather you have to be prepared to move .

I’m not arguing with you. The marina suffered damage and two RNLi boats attended a biat that dragged.

You’re wrong.

 

[Mark-1]

It's a totally enclosed sea loch. No matter what direction the wind is, there is always good shelter in the loch. It's a case of not being in the wrong place. For example, probably the best shelter is at Miodar, the bay immediately to starboard within the entrance. If or when the wind goes round to the NW, Miodar is the worst place. In common with lots of anchorages, in severe weather you have to be prepared to move .

Worth a look at the photo in the original post and concentrating on the boot line of the boat. At that point the sea state is far from terrifying. We also know now that the Shannon wasn't unable to tow due to wind or waves - it got clogged with weed. There may have been an insane windspeed but, unless that photo is very deceptive (it might be), the sea state wasn't too bad at that point.

 

[NormanS]

I’m not arguing with you. The marina suffered damage and two RNLi boats attended a biat that dragged.

You’re wrong.

In what way am I wrong?