Would you have stayed on board?

[Bouba]

I've heard them say they'd rather be called when not needed than the other way round.

But do they enjoy begging someone to let them save their life ?

 

[Mark-1]

But do they enjoy begging someone to let them save their life ?

Eh? His life was saved, presumably by their tow? (Or by his own actions?) If he'd died I'd agree he have been better off hopping off.

 

[SaltIre]

I have been thinking about this since I read the Oban RNLI post yesterday. My immediate thought is that the RNLI were not that effective. Their focus is on his refusal to abandon, rather than help. Neither boats got him to safety, the anchor eventually held.

At the end of the day, the bloke made the right call and saved himself and his boat. If he had abandoned his boat it could have been lost. I assume the RNLI were tasked to help because the boat owner initiated a call for help.

I don’t think it is possible to say what I would have done, but the bloke got outside assistance which helped save him and his boat, so the his actions were correct.

Do you know if the owner called for help?

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Do you know if the owner called for help?

No, as I said, I assume he did.

 

[ylop]

I have been thinking about this since I read the Oban RNLI post yesterday. My immediate thought is that the RNLI were not that effective. Their focus is on his refusal to abandon, rather than help. Neither boats got him to safety, the anchor eventually held.

Their mission is to save people not boats. Without knowing who called for help or the tone or priority attached to that it’s difficult to say if he unexpectedly found himself being asked to leave his boat or has dragged two lifeboat crews out in horrendous conditions then essentially refused help.

At the end of the day, the bloke made the right call and saved himself and his boat.

Or he got lucky. Thing is unless he did more after they left the boat would have survived anyway so all he did was keep the crew out longer, risk himself and have a rough night - had he gone with them the boat would presumably still have been there in the morning.

If he had abandoned his boat it could have been lost.

But if the same factors had hit it when he was onboard, it may have been lost with him in it?

I assume the RNLI were tasked to help because the boat owner initiated a call for help.

I think that is the unknown - it could well have been a call to Stornoway to tell them he was having some challenges and they escalated it or he may have placed a Mayday or PanPan. Or he may have sent a text to his wife ashore and she’s called it in. A bit surprising that if the location and depth of the vessel were known that between Stornoway and the Tobermory DLA they couldn’t work out that Oban would be the better boat in the first place.

These stories are alway a bit lacking in detail - how much had he dragged, was he aground or going to be at low tide, did he have a second anchor out? What was the hand injury? Presumably he wasn’t able to make way into the F11 wind? Why had he gone to Loch Aline in the first place? etc…

First I would want to know who called the lifeboat....if it was the casualty yachtsman (to use their terminology) and he deliberately put them in danger for no reason...then he should be prosecuted.

Which offence would you prosecute for? Even if he hadn’t initiated the call - presumably he had a conversation with the Tobermory Coxswain and if he really didn’t want a lifeboat Oban could have stayed in bed. I doubt very much he initiated a call out just for a laugh and to deliberately put the crew in danger.

I've heard them say they'd rather be called when not needed than the other way round.

That is true - they’d much rather have been called out, anchored his boat, evacuated him ashore and probably brought him back the next day to find the boat had survived fine than be called out when he was now in the water and the boat was breaking up. They’d probably also much rather have had a call 12 hours before to say he’d someone only just heard how bad the winds were and perhaps discovered the Lochaline pontoons would be closed and escorted him to one of the visitor mooring bouys off Oban or Tobermory - which would have been equally unpleasant but none of the boats there ended up ashore…. 2am because your anchor is dragging on a lee shore in widely forecast horrendous conditions doesn’t seem like calling early when not needed! If I understood the press release he only avoided the shore because the lifeboat towed him.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I don’t really know the loch but I don’t understand why he chose to go to the far end rather than tuck in under the small headland as shown on the chart.
I wouldn’t have fancied the pontoons in either Oban or Tobermory either, with good ground tackle I would have chosen that in the area with the shortest fetch.

 

[SaltIre]

That is true - they’d much rather have been called out, anchored his boat, evacuated him ashore and probably brought him back the next day to find the boat had survived fine than be called out when he was now in the water and the boat was breaking up. They’d probably also much rather have had a call 12 hours before to say he’d someone only just heard how bad the winds were and perhaps discovered the Lochaline pontoons would be closed and escorted him to one of the visitor mooring bouys off Oban or Tobermory - which would have been equally unpleasant but none of the boats there ended up ashore…. 2am because your anchor is dragging on a lee shore in widely forecast horrendous conditions doesn’t seem like calling early when not needed! If I understood the press release he only avoided the shore because the lifeboat towed him.

The press release suggests to me that the lifeboat was unable to make headway and stopped trying.

The person on the casualty vessel agreed to being towed to safety but, after two attempts to make headway and with winds in excess of 65 knots driving the Campbell-Watson towards shore, the decision was taken to cut the tow.

 

[lustyd]

I don’t really know the loch but I don’t understand why he chose to go to the far end rather than tuck in under the small headland as shown on the chart.
I wouldn’t have fancied the pontoons in either Oban or Tobermory either, with good ground tackle I would have chosen that in the area with the shortest fetch.

Id have done Kerrera rather than Oban. Both that and Tobermory are protected south and west so work for the predicted southerly and westerly winds. Tobermory also has an excellent anchorage by the woods with similar if not better protection. We sat out several similar storms in both.

Pretty sure the anchorage near the entrance is full of moorings, as are most Scottish “anchorages “ we found on charts.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Oban Transit Marina was closed for the storm and no boats were alongside. It did take a bit of battering. The Transit Marina outer breakwater pontoons have been damaged from a previous storm and have usage restrictions in place. Tobers would have been fine, even alongside, as they have a decent set of pontoons and in this case, well sheltered.

 

[dunedin]

I have gone into Loch Aline to weather normal gales many times. It has a bit of a fetch up in the SW but has very good holding and generally much more sheltered than outside.
The Loch shallows towards the head - so the anchor would not drop off the depths but be gradually pulled up a shallowing slope until, at worst case, was aground on the sudden shallows.
It must have been scary - but unlike perhaps the Goodwin Sands or similar, if he did run aground the boat might get damaged but I can’t see it being life threatening to stay on board. Or even get in the dinghy and blow further into the shallows.
One of the very experienced professional skippers of a tour boat (one of the Glens?) departed Tobermory mid afternoon and moved down to anchor in Loch Aline just a hundred metres or so upwind of the boat in difficulties. So a professional skipper who knows the area inside out chose to go and anchor there, difficult to criticise an amateur.#

To my mind it would certainly be preferable to many other locations in the area - including Loch Feochan that another poster was thinking of going to. And my experience of the generally very deep Loch Drambuie would not encourage me to go there.
The Loch Aline pontoons are very choppy in these conditions and it appears they got damaged. Tobermory pontoons might have been better - and indeed the sailing trip boat Flying Dutchman moved up to Tobermory from Oban to weather the storm.

# The professional skipper decison that did amaze me was that of trip boat Lord of the Highlands - which is very high sided and low freeboard, more suited to the Canals it often frequents. It went out round Ardnamurchan on Friday morning, which was ambitious in itself. Then it anchored off a lee shore at Inverie of all places. Later in the evening it got underway and motored up and down Loch Nevis at about 2 knots in the dark, in an entirely unlit rocky loch. Loch Nevis is known for its fierce squalls in fair weather, would be at risk of ridiculous squalls in Amy. I am amazed they had confidence in their ability to motor into the forecast wind up one of the windiest places in mainland Scotland. Fortunately they seemed to get away with it.

 

[ducked]

I have been in the situation (flat calm) where they wanted me off. I said what if I didn't get off. They said they would have to hang about all night. If I had called, I would have done what I was told.

I was there a few weeks ago. Plenty of big buoys to catch onto off to starboard as you come in. I would have picked up one of those, I think.

Never done anything like that, but picking up a big buoy sounds a non-trivial exercise, at night, in a storm, single handed, when already apparently injured, even if you knew where they were.

 

[dunedin]

I don’t really know the loch but I don’t understand why he chose to go to the far end rather than tuck in under the small headland as shown on the chart.
I wouldn’t have fancied the pontoons in either Oban or Tobermory either, with good ground tackle I would have chosen that in the area with the shortest fetch.

The place he anchored is the usual anchorage, with excellent holding in good depths. The “small headlands” would have provided no shelter at all with a bit of tide height. And the SE corner is full of moorings.
The professional skipper anchored just 100m or so directly in front of the yacht, in slightly deeper water.

The fact that the wind started blowing very fiercely from the SE, then swung S then SW and eventually round to WNW was probably another factor - not many places have all round shelter plus swinging room in suitable depths for such a storm.

 

[penberth3]

First I would want to know who called the lifeboat....if it was the casualty yachtsman (to use their terminology) and he deliberately put them in danger for no reason...then he should be prosecuted.

Prosecuted for what? What offence has been committed?

 

[Bouba]

Prosecuted for what? What offence has been committed?

I’m no lawyer...but here’s a start...
Emergency Workers (Obstruction) Act 2006

 

[penberth3]

I’m no lawyer...but here’s a start...
Emergency Workers (Obstruction) Act 2006

Give up now, don't dig yourself a deeper hole.

 

[GEM43]

I have gone into Loch Aline to weather normal gales many times. It has a bit of a fetch up in the SW but has very good holding and generally much more sheltered than outside.
The Loch shallows towards the head - so the anchor would not drop off the depths but be gradually pulled up a shallowing slope until, at worst case, was aground on the sudden shallows.
It must have been scary - but unlike perhaps the Goodwin Sands or similar, if he did run aground the boat might get damaged but I can’t see it being life threatening to stay on board. Or even get in the dinghy and blow further into the shallows.
One of the very experienced professional skippers of a tour boat (one of the Glens?) departed Tobermory mid afternoon and moved down to anchor in Loch Aline just a hundred metres or so upwind of the boat in difficulties. So a professional skipper who knows the area inside out chose to go and anchor there, difficult to criticise an amateur.#

To my mind it would certainly be preferable to many other locations in the area - including Loch Feochan that another poster was thinking of going to. And my experience of the generally very deep Loch Drambuie would not encourage me to go there.
The Loch Aline pontoons are very choppy in these conditions and it appears they got damaged. Tobermory pontoons might have been better - and indeed the sailing trip boat Flying Dutchman moved up to Tobermory from Oban to weather the storm.

# The professional skipper decison that did amaze me was that of trip boat Lord of the Highlands - which is very high sided and low freeboard, more suited to the Canals it often frequents. It went out round Ardnamurchan on Friday morning, which was ambitious in itself. Then it anchored off a lee shore at Inverie of all places. Later in the evening it got underway and motored up and down Loch Nevis at about 2 knots in the dark, in an entirely unlit rocky loch. Loch Nevis is known for its fierce squalls in fair weather, would be at risk of ridiculous squalls in Amy. I am amazed they had confidence in their ability to motor into the forecast wind up one of the windiest places in mainland Scotland. Fortunately they seemed to get away with it.

You make a fair point about depths in Drumbuie, I’ve used the SW corner where it’s possible to drop anchor in 12m then in windy conditions, with nobody else about, put 80m of chain out. I think i still prefer it over Aline.

 

[Tamar]

Last summer a lifeboat came out to a broken down fishing boat, it wasn't called and the skipper of the fishing boat refused any help. He was anchored and safe. He got his engine restarted and proceeded back to his mooring.
Also we seem to get lifeboats to vessels aground on the approach to harbour on a falling tide, they are in no danger, just in for a long wait . No one admits to calling these guys. But I guess it's good experiences for the rookie crews

 

[dgadee]

Never done anything like that, but picking up a big buoy sounds a non-trivial exercise, at night, in a storm, single handed, when already apparently injured, even if you knew where they were.

Nah. I meant before the weather hit.

Or go and tie up to a fish farm somewhere.

 

[ylop]

Id have done Kerrera rather than Oban.

yeah I don’t mean the north pier transit pontoons - they close in wild conditions. Kerrera and the visitor moorings off the sailing club in Oban bay were wild - the worse conditions I’ve seen “in season” but no boats came adrift and the only damage I’ve heard was genoas which unfurled. Linnhe marine posted a video - rough but no damage.

 

[dgadee]

Last summer a lifeboat came out to a broken down fishing boat, it wasn't called and the skipper of the fishing boat refused any help. He was anchored and safe. He got his engine restarted and proceeded back to his mooring.
Also we seem to get lifeboats to vessels aground on the approach to harbour on a falling tide, they are in no danger, just in for a long wait . No one admits to calling these guys. But I guess it's good experiences for the rookie crews

My experience was letting the coastguard know I was aground. They took the decision to call out the lifeboat. They were all on board anyway, having just finished an evening's exercise.

Anchor was put out and boat was happily afloat next morning.