would you give a dam

[NealB]

I don't think I've ever seen a fractional rigged Twister before. Even prettier than the masthead rig in my opinion. Does it affect rating?

That was exactly my thought, too.

It's a very powerful image, for sure.

 

[steveeasy]

I think most people looking for a boat, say in the £5k - £30k range would be looking at ebay and Apolloduck, therefore if your boat is only advertised on a class association web site you really are losing out on an awful lot of exposure to potential buyers. And any boat for sale will attract more interest if there are a good range of quality photos in the ad itself.

Might I also suggest that as you're selling the boat anyway unless you're planning on remaining a member of the class association why not leave sooner rather than later and forget about the arseholes who are clearly upsetting you...
[/QUOTE

I don't think I've ever seen a fractional rigged Twister before. Even prettier than the masthead rig in my opinion. Does it affect rating?

In terms of racing Ive been given a handicap of which I understand not. You have though managed to put a smile on my grumpy face as I write this saying she looks good. Thank you for this. The rig was commissioned for racing on the Thames. owned by the Atley family. a Trophy exists in her name (the Helix Trophy Cup) awarded to the first boat to cross the line between Gravesend and London Bridge. I was told she was not a proper Twister by the man in question and to chop the mast. Nice.
Steveeasy

 

[Concerto]

Steve, as you know I remember David Atlee being the owner of Helix and I even sailed once on Helix in 1966. The ¾ rig was David's requirement and Kim Holman designed the rig including Jumper stays. David was very traditional to the extent he did not believe in lifelines, more one hand for yourself and one for the ship. When new she had a dark green hull, but I prefer the white hull you now have.

Sometimes things bug you and you feel cheated and annoyed for years, then something gives you a chance to get even. This happened to my father's boat whilst racing. Our Nicholson 30 was hull No.6 and was built with a transom hung rudder with a deep skeg, as per the plans. Other owners found the boat to be too directionally stable and the skeg was removed on several and they handled far better. We were advised to remove the skeg and get a new rudder. This was done and along with a few other small changes, the boat was rerated. In fact that year she had been remeasured 4 times with all the changes. Nobody questioned this as we followed the rules exactly. When the boat was over 3 years old we received a small age allowance on the rating, again as laid out in the rules. Well we won our first major race (over the years I cannot remember how many 2nd's, 3rd's, 4ths overall and class wins we had), but a swell of comments started saying we cheated by altering the boat by removing the skeg. The person concerned was in a different club to us and kept repeating this everywhere he could. Eventually the race organisers asked my father to attend a meeting to discuss the matter and they found everything was correct. This did not stop the chatter and was leaving a bad feeling. The trophy was awarded at the annual dinner of the racing association, unfortunately my Father was in Australia at the time, so I asked my mum if I could collect the trophy. I should mention the trophy had been donated some years earlier in memory of their daughter who had died and was being presented by the mother. Well you could have heard a pin drop when I went up to collect the trophy and I never did find out what this lady thought of why no one applauded like the other trophies. This was certainly something I will never forget. However I did manage to get my own back. This "gentleman" was still racing his same boat some 4 years later. I was invited to race on another boat and by pure fluke was in a position that helped get satisfaction. This race started with about 20 yachts on a dead run to a turning mark ¼ mile from the line where there was a 90 degree starboard turn. Everyone set spinnakers for this short run. Having started at the port end of the line without a spinnaker, we approached on starboard gybe. There was liitle difference in boat speed over this short distance and I called to the yacht to windward I was on starboard and if he wanted water at the mark he should gybe on to starbaord, which caused a few problems as several followed suit as they started dropping their spinnakers. As a row of about 10 yachts tried to round the mark as they were dropping their spinnakers and sorting their boats out, but some who started on the starboard end of the line were being forced to harden up to the buoy on port tack and were shouting for water to a number of boats now on starboard. Well one yacht hit the buoy, guess who, yup the rumour munger himself and many others collided due to his actions. I had anticipated that we should be able to close reach with the spinnaker, so we hoisted ours when everyone else was in a mess and we pulled away from the fleet. Good tactics won the day, but there was an almighty protest at the end of the race, which I avoided. Still laugh about it today as I felt staisfied in getting equal.

Steve, there may come a chance when something similar will come your way or you could be creative in some other way.

 

[NealB]

Steve, as you know I remember David Atlee being the owner of Helix and I even sailed once on Helix in 1966. The ¾ rig was David's requirement and Kim Holman designed the rig including Jumper stays. David was very traditional to the extent he did not believe in lifelines, more one hand for yourself and one for the ship. When new she had a dark green hull, but I prefer the white hull you now have.

Sometimes things bug you and you feel cheated and annoyed for years, then something gives you a chance to get even. This happened to my father's boat whilst racing. Our Nicholson 30 was hull No.6 and was built with a transom hung rudder with a deep skeg, as per the plans. Other owners found the boat to be too directionally stable and the skeg was removed on several and they handled far better. We were advised to remove the skeg and get a new rudder. This was done and along with a few other small changes, the boat was rerated. In fact that year she had been remeasured 4 times with all the changes. Nobody questioned this as we followed the rules exactly. When the boat was over 3 years old we received a small age allowance on the rating, again as laid out in the rules. Well we won our first major race (over the years I cannot remember how many 2nd's, 3rd's, 4ths overall and class wins we had), but a swell of comments started saying we cheated by altering the boat by removing the skeg. The person concerned was in a different club to us and kept repeating this everywhere he could. Eventually the race organisers asked my father to attend a meeting to discuss the matter and they found everything was correct. This did not stop the chatter and was leaving a bad feeling. The trophy was awarded at the annual dinner of the racing association, unfortunately my Father was in Australia at the time, so I asked my mum if I could collect the trophy. I should mention the trophy had been donated some years earlier in memory of their daughter who had died and was being presented by the mother. Well you could have heard a pin drop when I went up to collect the trophy and I never did find out what this lady thought of why no one applauded like the other trophies. This was certainly something I will never forget. However I did manage to get my own back. This "gentleman" was still racing his same boat some 4 years later. I was invited to race on another boat and by pure fluke was in a position that helped get satisfaction. This race started with about 20 yachts on a dead run to a turning mark ¼ mile from the line where there was a 90 degree starboard turn. Everyone set spinnakers for this short run. Having started at the port end of the line without a spinnaker, we approached on starboard gybe. There was liitle difference in boat speed over this short distance and I called to the yacht to windward I was on starboard and if he wanted water at the mark he should gybe on to starbaord, which caused a few problems as several followed suit as they started dropping their spinnakers. As a row of about 10 yachts tried to round the mark as they were dropping their spinnakers and sorting their boats out, but some who started on the starboard end of the line were being forced to harden up to the buoy on port tack and were shouting for water to a number of boats now on starboard. Well one yacht hit the buoy, guess who, yup the rumour munger himself and many others collided due to his actions. I had anticipated that we should be able to close reach with the spinnaker, so we hoisted ours when everyone else was in a mess and we pulled away from the fleet. Good tactics won the day, but there was an almighty protest at the end of the race, which I avoided. Still laugh about it today as I felt staisfied in getting equal.

Steve, there may come a chance when something similar will come your way or you could be creative in some other way.

A good yarn ,well told, with an optimistic ending.

Thank you!!

 

[NickRobinson]

.

 

[steve yates]

It was only offensive to me. cos it was of my b

Well if you have been on board a Twister there is little to take pictures of. The pic is only offensive to me as its of my boat. it was more offensive I had to spend a night explaining that. not too hard to work out surely for Him I mean.

Steve, I can assure you you have that wrong.
I sail my mates twister, we looked at a few before he went for this one. They can be surprisingly different inside from boat to boat, but regardless of that, I for one always discount adverts where I cannot see good pics of the interior, because I assume they are hiding a world of neglect.
if your serious about selling it, take some shots of the imside and include them in the advert. If nothing else they will negate the pic the other guy posted.

 

[Tranona]

No, good advice Thanks. I always thought and still do advertising my boat where i have, is the best place. limited by number of pics one can post. I send a further 20 or 30 to those interested. Ive not been even showing her over winter as I live a long way away and shes fully winterised. She will sell when she does. I really only like to show her looking her best. Hence why the pic was so offensive to me. all he had to do was say, oh sorry ill crop it rather than asking me what my problem was half a dozen times.

You may want to reconsider the way you are trying to sell the boat. Pointless advertising it if potential buyers cannot view it. I agree with others offering it just through owners association is really limiting. Seems like you have got too much invested (in all senses) in the boat and think it has only a limited appeal - that may be right, but why limit the number of people that can see it? Maybe worth considering leaving it for the winter, then when you get it back in commission, prep it well and advertise it widely through ebay and Apolloduck. You need the widest audience to find the one person who will fall in love. Would also suggest you try a broker such as Woodenships, Classic Yacht Sales or on the east coast MJ Lewis. They earn their living selling boats and are far better at it than doting owners selling their pride and joy!

 

[steveeasy]

Whats wrong with this then!!. Bright, clean. nice cockpit sole. Too many sail bags. Do you really need to see the Loo. A Twister is all about practicalities. Its not a gin palace. Forget the cushions and bottle of wine. They are functional, practical sailboats. I fully agree more pics are better.

 

[steveeasy]

Must remember though the thread was about would you give a dam. The only issue was a derogative image taken by a person who posted it and I did not appreciate it. I asked several times politely for it to be cropped or removed. and for the life of me he could not understand my problem. I wanted to find out if others would be offended and also if the image had a negative impact on me or the boat where I might stand legally.

The crap involving the other person and his sidekick is and will never change. its just what happens in life. Ive learnt to live with it. it does not stop me just slows me every so often. I also slightly regret raising the thread as the pic was not posted intentionally to offend it was a error of judgement. like arguing the toss of removing it. Good exists in all people. That is what I think. Well on a good day. The chap has always belittled me and well who knows. His sidekick is just a *****.that’s it. That can cause a lot of unpleasantness. Not what associations are about.
Steveeasy

 

[Tranona]

View attachment 130567

Whats wrong with this then!!. Bright, clean. nice cockpit sole. Too many sail bags. Do you really need to see the Loo. A Twister is all about practicalities. Its not a gin palace. Forget the cushions and bottle of wine. They are functional, practical sailboats. I fully agree more pics are better.

Yes, you do need to see the loo! Perhaps you are looking at it from YOUR perspective rather than potential buyers! Best advice is to strip it out of ALL the clobber so that buyers can see the basics. They know that when it is use it will be full of "stuff" - but it will be their stuff - not yours.

I know it is a different style of boat, but here yachtworld.co.uk/yacht/2015-bavaria-cruiser-33-8160331/ is the particulars and photos of the boat I have just sold. Note we left just the scatter cushions, books and pictures on - everything else was cleared out and a detailed list of what came with the boat was provided to the buyer (second person to view). I know it is difficult to take gear off if you have nowhere to store it, but at least do it for the photos - and show everything, warts and all. Remember the buyer's first impression is your ad - this frames his perception of the boat before he makes the decision to travel and view. When he arrives, just give him the key and tell him where to find you for questions. Owners are generally lousy at selling their pride and joy and this way avoids getting bogged down explaining things you think he might want to know about. Wait for questions after he has done his inspection, then you are dealing with what he wants to know rather than what you think he does. This approach is even more important in a small boat like yours where two people inside is a crowd!

You may find it useful to see how the professionals can make a Twister look good. Yachtsnet is excellent www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives/twister/twister.htm and Boatshed archives give a good range cornwall.boatshed.com/dosearch.php?show_sold=1&return_url=%2Farchive&q=Twister They perhaps go a bit OTT on the "warts" and details but they know it answers a lot of questions even before the buyer comes to view. I bought my Golden Hind through Boatshed and the particulars answered a lot of my questions and enabled me to draw up a list of things I wanted to inspect in detail so I could make maximum use of the viewing (260 mile drive away!).

So make things easy for the potential buyers.

 

[steveeasy]

I probably do expect any possible buyer to have a good understanding of everything found in a Twister. In fact I’ve probably discounted anyone who in my opinion does not qualify to be allowed to buy my boat. As you say too involved having given so much time to it. This is a little unfair to potential buyers. I’ll have to deal with the sale in a much more distant way.
steveeasy

 

[Crispan]

Yes, you do need to see the loo! Perhaps you are looking at it from YOUR perspective rather than potential buyers! Best advice is to strip it out of ALL the clobber so that buyers can see the basics. They know that when it is use it will be full of "stuff" - but it will be their stuff - not yours.

Thats the issue here, if serious about selling its best to 'step-away' - in all its meanings. If too emotional, sellers can put themselves through a lot of angst and in extreme cases can lose the buyer.

On a small boat like that i would typically shoot 100 to 130 photo's. About half would be marketeering type shots and half would be the technical (recorded) type shots ...for when you get into the nitty-gritty of survey. The boat would be de-cluttered first and none of the photo's would be out of focus, underexposed, squint or low res like that one above. Loo seats down for the selling ad ...or up, exposing all its nasties for the technical recorded shots. LOL

 

[Tranona]

While it is nice to think you can sell your boat to someone like you that seriously limits your market. I had exactly the same problem when selling my old Eventide and fortunately did find the "right person", but that boat was not in commission and I sold it subject to being "sailaway". Thankfully it worked and he did indeed sail away and have not heard from him since! The Twister is not that "special" in the sense that there are plenty around and it is well known for what it is. There are usually half a dozen for sale at any one time so prospective buyers have a choice - you want them to choose yours!

 

[steveeasy]

Not that special. Heaven forbid. What do you mean. ?
Steveeasy

 

[Tranona]

Not that special. Heaven forbid. What do you mean. ?
Steveeasy

Wot I said - plenty around. 6 for sale currently in the UK. Anybody interested in that type of boat will find out pretty quickly what is for sale and you need to make your boat stand out in what is really quite a crowded market. Every owner thinks their boat is "special"!

 

[steveeasy]

Back to the point in hand. I’ve been quite down over the matter. I don’t like any confrontation. Now there will be some lurking in the shadows thinking I’ve been unjust in my thread.
id like to stress the image portrayed my boat looking very bad. Dirty with damage to bulkhead tabbing( quite common in a twister yes it is)
It’s my boat. And I did not like or appreciate the image that was taken without my consent be put on social media. Liked by the sidekick. I suspect both people involved thought it ok. It was not. I sent a very soft polite email requesting the image be cropped or replaced. This refused. A further 4 requests were made and as they seamed to fall on death ears I posted on here.
I am yet to receive any apology of which I would think was reasonable. That in it self highlights the problem. The image would never have been used if it was another member or posted without their consent. It was inconsiderate and lacked good judgement. Funny not.
steveeasy

 

[Capt Popeye]

Might mention from many years of experience , that the Adverts for sale in Club and Association Members sites are bloody well most difficut to BUY never mind sell ; too often the Association rules are that you have to actually Join The Association before accesing the Association selling sites , why I can never understand , cause it severely limits the catchment of interested buyers ; after selling (moving 0n) from certain Class /Association boats I find gear (usefull) that would best be bought (sefull) by Class Boat owners , but ill be bgrd if I am going to Join up just so that I can offer gear

My guess is that some Class Associations are being run by 'neer do wells' so are best avoided like a plauge

Grumps now over {#

 

[Concerto]

Might mention from many years of experience , that the Adverts for sale in Club and Association Members sites are bloody well most difficut to BUY never mind sell ; too often the Association rules are that you have to actually Join The Association before accesing the Association selling sites , why I can never understand , cause it severely limits the catchment of interested buyers ; after selling (moving 0n) from certain Class /Association boats I find gear (usefull) that would best be bought (sefull) by Class Boat owners , but ill be bgrd if I am going to Join up just so that I can offer gear

My guess is that some Class Associations are being run by 'neer do wells' so are best avoided like a plauge

Grumps now over {#

I agree with you in general. One exception is the Westerly web site where anyone can view the boats for sale and non members can list items for a small fee.

 

[Tranona]

You can for Twisters here twister.org.uk/twisters-for-sale/ including the OP's boat. With a limit of 10 photos though you have to make every one work - and they have to be good! Plenty of room for detailed descriptions of gear so even more important to declutter to see the boat at its best.

 

[steveeasy]

Might mention from many years of experience , that the Adverts for sale in Club and Association Members sites are bloody well most difficut to BUY never mind sell ; too often the Association rules are that you have to actually Join The Association before accesing the Association selling sites , why I can never understand , cause it severely limits the catchment of interested buyers ; after selling (moving 0n) from certain Class /Association boats I find gear (usefull) that would best be bought (sefull) by Class Boat owners , but ill be bgrd if I am going to Join up just so that I can offer gear

My guess is that some Class Associations are being run by 'neer do wells' so are best avoided like a plauge

Grumps now over {#

Well the association in question is easily accessible. run very well and id very much recommend it. which some would think contradicts my thread. it does not. Ive very much supported it for years and the service to outside visitors would be second to none. Social media however brings a different element in to the equation. Pm bitching and our associations apparent facebook page a platform for a sidekicks over inflated ego. exactly where the problems started. fine if your not on the receiving end. For me it has been difficult.
Steveeasy