would you call a pan pan in this situation

[ninky]

heard a pan pan call yesterday that got me thinking. it was a sailboat at anchor that had got a fouled prop (warp in the water). the skipper (i presume) called a pan pan to the coastguard to inform of the situation. they replied to say they were sending assistance. he then asked if it was "entirely necessary" since they were at anchor. the coastguard however were now called and insisted they were on their way.

there were two people on the boat including the skipper and they had not yet attempted to free the prop by getting in the water.

would you have called a pan pan in this situation? surely if a boat is at anchor and this is not dragging you are not in any real danger - other than maybe leaving when you wanted to. should the coastguard be used for this type of rescue or should there be some sort of paid for service for people that can't help themselves out of this type of situation?

 

[David_Jersey]

Interesting that we both have slightly different iinterpretations of the event (which neither of us saw - just like the CG) - not saying mine is right, but my first reaction was not that simply making the call meant they "can't help themselves".

I dunno if it was a "Pan Pan" - but I think sensible in advising the Coast Guard, not essential but cautiously sensible. 95% + chance of prop being cleared, but always a chance that things could go badly (anchor dragging / swimmer getting injured or simply drifting away) - especially if small crew / limited ability left onboard if skipper is also the diver

If things went awry the Coast Guard would already have a heads up (name & type of boat / exact initial location / people on board / type of initial problem), which I would have thought could only help if things develop into an actual request for assistance.

Not to say I would bother with a Radio Call, but I ain't onboard with a wife and kids.


I guess the CG has a procedure...................

 

[ninky]

I
I dunno if it was a "Pan Pan" - but I think sensible in advising the Coast Guard, not essential but cautiously sensible. 95% + chance of prop being cleared, but always a chance that things could go badly (anchor dragging / swimmer getting injured or simply drifting away) - especially if small crew / limited ability left onboard if skipper is also the diver

okay, but should i call the ambulance every time my OH goes up the ladder to the loft just incase he falls down and breaks his neck? the call out times for ambulances in our part of the world are generally longer than the call out time for the coastguard in the solent.

could he not have left details of position with the other crew member on board and asked them to call (mobile is pretty reliable from any anchorage in the solent) or radio them if in difficulty?

in addition, you could attach yourself to the boat to prevent being carried away. injury is harder to ensure against but you could get injured ANY time when sailing.

as the wife / skipper on our boat i don't go with the over-cautious on behalf of wife excuse that a lot of blokes use when they are a bit scared.

 

[wooslehunter]

I caught some but not all of this so here's my view.

Pan-Pan should be used when there is urgency in the sitaution but at the time there is no immediate danger to vessel or persons. So IMO it was not necessary. A simple call to coastie to make them aware of the situation and the actions they were planning would have sufficed. They then said they were "about to commence diving operations" to attempt to clear the prop. There were 2 people on board. That could have meant they had a fully kitted diver & standby on board or they were about to try to swim it with a just mask only. You need to be careful about what you say. Be precise.

Hamble Lifeboat were on the water & close by so were immediately tasked by coastie.

Now look at the wider picture. If they had been in a shipping lane or unable to anchor then perhaps a pan-pan would have been in order. Or, perhaps they had a very tight line & a rapidly rising tide pulling at the prop shaft. It's been know to pull a shaft out.

The biggest problem with pan-pan or mayday calls when they are not really warranted is that they the soak up a resource that could be called on for a "real" shout.

 

[jenku]

Depends a little where he is anchored, surely? In an anchorage I would not call a pan pan but maybe if I am anchored in or near open water or where there is frequent traffic/ships?

 

[David_Jersey]

I don't disagree with what you are saying, but I don't think anything "wrong" with calling the CG to simply let them know - Skipper's job is to make judgements like that (some you get 100%% right, some not so much ) and IMO this was not in the stubbed toe category - albeit, as I said, not sure this amounted to a "Pan Pan".

I am surprised (disappointed?) that the CG then insisted on a rescue - I will be generous and presume their were circumstances I don't know about .......especially as simply contacting the CG generating a rescure may put someone else off from making a call that was more warranted - or simply later turned out that it would have been a good idea.

as the wife / skipper on our boat i don't go with the over-cautious on behalf of wife excuse that a lot of blokes use when they are a bit scared.

Good that you know what you are dong aboard But I think you are a tad harsh on others . The "responsibility thing" for loved ones (especially those who do rely on you) does affect ones willingness to take risks that you would otherwise be prepared to take. I dunno if their is typically a male / female difference on that.....

 

[rickp]

should there be some sort of paid for service for people that can't help themselves out of this type of situation?

Sea Start

 

[snowleopard]

Been there, got the T shirt.

I was 15M off the mouth of the Humber when a wave caused my front crossbeam to crack. There was no immediate danger but I had to slow down to under 3 knots to avoid shipping water into the hulls. I made a panpan call to Humber coastguard as a 'heads up' in case the situation got worse. Despite my protestations they insisted on sending out the lifeboat to escort us in. The crew were out about 6 hours though in that case they were full-timers so at least I hadn't kept them away from their jobs.

My experience and that of the people mentioned here would make me more reluctant to make the call in future unless things were a lot more serious.

Anyone know if the CG have a policy of sending a lifeboat to all urgency calls?

 

[Boreades]

I don't want to try and guess why the skipper felt it was a Pan Pan situation. Anyone who spends enough time in boats can get into a situation that seems bad and help is urgently wanted. There but for the grace of God go I.

Maybe the CG's reaction is more understandable i.e. a "disabled" craft calls them, so it automatically becomes a logged event, with due process and standard responses. I don't think there's a option in the CG's procedures for something like "Oh, well, give us another call if it gets any worse".

 

[ninky]

I am surprised (disappointed?) that the CG then insisted on a rescue - I will be generous and presume their were circumstances I don't know about .......especially as simply contacting the CG generating a rescure may put someone else off from making a call that was more warranted - or simply later turned out that it would have been a good idea.

thing is once the skipper had sent out an "in case" distress call, the CG are then obliged to send out an "in case" response. what if he had drifted off and drowned and they hadn't sent a rescue out? injury lawyers 4u would have had a field day.

i'm not saying i totally know what i'm doing onboard. it's a constant case of risk assessment isn't it? everything has some measure of risk attached to it. that's why i'm interested in others response. because in this case i would not have called a pan pan. we don't have an inboard anyway so wouldn't have happened to us. but at the moment we try to sail with two outboards - so there is always the spare if we get into trouble. i'm guessing people also managed before there were engines.

 

[bbg]

Perhaps it lies in the nature of the call. Pan Pan is a security call, and their must be standard responses which they have to follow. Perhaps if someone just calls up the local CG station directly (surely we all have their numbers coded into our DSC?) to advise of situation and arrange a call-in schedule, they might not be required (by their procedures) to send help?

 

[drawkins]

thing is once the skipper had sent out an "in case" distress call, the CG are then obliged to send out an "in case" response. what if he had drifted off and drowned and they hadn't sent a rescue out? injury lawyers 4u would have had a field day.

Is that really true? how many times have the RNLI been sued?

 

[Cliveshep]

Always more than one angle to consider in all these situations. The OP only overheard a pan call to the Coastguard who made the decision to send assistance. Why would they have chosen to do that? Well, perhaps the yacht was on a lee shore with a rising tide? Anchor warp perhaps fouled the prop as she swung? An annoyance could then have escalated to an emergency and a 6.00pm news item quite quickly.

I put myself in the same position. I've been boating for many years, since I was 20 in fact, that's 43 years. Been out on pilot boats, trawlers, potters etc, never sailed I confess, always power. Now..........I cannot swim, neither can my wife and don't tell me I shouldn't be sailing 'cos that's rubbish, many professional fishermen I know cannot swim either, and some even get "mal de mer" every time they leave harbour even in a flat calm, yet still pursue their calling day after day. If I had the misfortune to foul a prop I'd HAVE to call for assistance 'cos lifeline or not if I went over the side the lifeline would only serve to stop my corpse drifting off!

I don't make a habit of fouling a prop and only once might have needed a tow when the prop fouled and that was because a day-tripper towed a line across my bow in the Solent and even then I used my auxilary to get back. Before making hasty judgements on this case I suggest that we ought to consider circumstances that we are totally unaware of where the unfortunate skipper felt he was doing the right and prudent thing. Like they say, sh$t happens and at sea it's not always like breaking down on the motorway where one can simply disembark and wait behind the crash barrier.

 

[estarzinger]

I find the coast guard reaction interesting/surprising. I would have thought a proper PAN PAN response could be 'OK call us back in 30 minutes and give us an update'.

I once made a PAN PAN to Bermuda harbour radio. We were 30 miles out and had a broken engine, jammed steering and something wrong with the keel (lots of clunking going on) and could only make about 2.5 kts because of the steering. So, I made the PAN PAN, said we were in no immediate trouble but wanted them to be aware of our situation in case it got worse. They were terrific - called me every hour to get an updated position and situation and on the quay to welcome us when we actually got there. When I said we did not need assistance at this time, there was absolutely no interest in forcing any sort of assistance on us.

I would not think a simple line around a prop at anchor merits a PAN PAN but there could well be more to the situation than we know.

 

[Pete7]

I am surprised (disappointed?) that the CG then insisted on a rescue - I will be generous and presume their were circumstances I don't know about .......especially as simply contacting the CG generating a rescure may put someone else off from making a call that was more warranted - or simply later turned out that it would have been a good idea.

Solent coast guard did explain when questioned by the yacht if a lifeboat was really necessary, that the lifeboat was nearby so not a problem.

I would be more concerned what would happen if the yacht was at anchor and the diver started to drift off in the tide leaving one on board and wonder if the coasties were thinking the same. Should it have been a pan pan? well in this case the Coasties quickly cancelled the Pan Pan once the lifeboat had the yacht in tow. What it did do was shut the incessant calls for marina berths on channel 16 instead of 80.

Pete

 

[ninky]

thing is once the skipper had sent out an "in case" distress call, the CG are then obliged to send out an "in case" response. what if he had drifted off and drowned and they hadn't sent a rescue out? injury lawyers 4u would have had a field day.

Is that really true? how many times have the RNLI been sued?

wouldn't have been the rnli who were sued but the coastguard as they were the ones who received the pan pan. like other emergency services (such as ambulances) they are required to respond to an emergency call.

 

[Leighb]

We faced a similar siruation in June on our way back from Holland.

At 02-30 motor sailing at about 5kn we came to a shuddering halt about a mile East of the Cork Sand. After a careful assessment we realised that we were held fast to the seabed by presumably a lobster pot rope, and in the dark with a bit of a chop we felt it was dangerous to consider putting someone over the side.

We called Thames CG on 16 - not a Pan Pan as no immediate danger - and they took it from there. The Harwich Lifeboat came out and towed us in, and later in the morning when it was light the coxs'n went in wearling a drysuit and cleared all the tangle that was wrapped round the prop and shaft.

The Lifeboat crew did a great job, and Jan and I went back a few days later to thank them properly.

In the OP's situation perhaps a simple call on 16/67 to advise CG and then see if they can free themselves?

 

[ninky]

i did smile when he gave his sail number "to aid identification"

 

[Neil_Y]

The situation from the skippers perspective could easily have been within the realms of needing to make the coastguard and others in th earea aware.

The reason for a channel 16 pan pan, is as much to inform vessels in the vicinity as to inform the coastguard. It's a stand by, be aware, in case you can help. It is better to call and then downgrade a call than to ponder. It isn't a call for help, how the coastguard choose to handle the call is dependant on a number of factors, I would expect them to ask "do you want a tow to port" and arange for a commercial rate tow if that was what the skipper asked for. If they have a rescue boat/coastguard boat in the area why not send it over to see if it can help.

I've put out one mayday, and downgraded to pan when we had more information, I would do the same again.

 

[tcm]

ooh yes, I'd definitely definitely have called a pan-pan if there's a rope around the prop AND/OR of course bearing in mind the very real possibility of a rope geting around the prop in the near future. In fact, I think i might in future call up the coastguard to tellem that the boat is a bit of a mess, or that one of the fenders is slightly spongy.