Wot ? No Hutton posts yet?? NM

[jimi]

Re: Speaks for itself

He did'nt weigh up the evidence .. he accepted the word of Campell. He states that Kelly comitted suicide .. the coroner has'nt done his enquiry yet and there a lot more evidence that was withheld from Hutton that is being made available there. Sorry Joe but I cannot accept as credible any of the conclusions of this report.. they are subjective judgements on a very narrow remit and, like everything else, the goverment is spinning it to appear wider and more comprehensive than it is.


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[Joe_Cole]

Re: Speaks for itself

Jimi,

The BBC has accepted it. The Tories have accepted it (reluctantly!). I'm sure the military and secret services will accept it. Everyone involved seems to have accepted it.

You don't.

I think we'll just have to agree (or dissagree!) to differ. Obviously nothing I say will get you to change your mind...it was made up long ago!! /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

Joe

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[jimi]

Re: Speaks for itself

Greg Dyke has'nt .. and neither has 73% of the british public ..

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[Twister_Ken]

12 months ago

>The BBC has accepted it. The Tories have accepted it (reluctantly!). I'm sure the military and secret services will accept it. Everyone involved seems to have accepted it.<

you could have said much the same about WMD!

Sometimes it's good not to let the bastards pull wool over your eyes.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.writeforweb.com/twister1>Let's Twist Again</A>

 

[TheBoatman]

Re: 12 months ago

As most of you know I have a general hatred of all politicians, but in this case I have to say that having had to meet new people most of my working life and having run my own business for 15 years I have over that time got to rely on my gut instincts and I’m sorry folks but I have a definite bad feeling about this whole sorry story.

As Del Boy would say “ I gotta feeling someone’s wetting up my leg”.

The whole thing just doesn’t sit right with me.

Having seen Dr Kelly on the TV, I have to ask, Why would a normal mild mannered man be driven to suicide? And having seen and read reports on the way A.Campbell ran various No 10 meetings I would have to draw the conclusion that he must have been involved in some way?

That he and TB were not as squeeky clean as made out.

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[Mirelle]

Why juries are useful

I think an awful lot of us think that. We have seen the actors in the drama on television and drawn our own conclusions.

One conclusion that one might draw from this affair is that Dr Kelly's one mistake was to report his conversation with Gilligan to the MOD. If he had not done that, Campbell would not have been so excited about ensuring that his name came out, because Campbell would not have known it, and the matter would have ended there and then.

<hr width=100% size=1>Que scais-je?

 

[Bejasus]

Re: Come on guys credit where it\'s due

Don't get me wrong, I am not anti war in the right circumstances (e.g.Falklands and the first gilf war), but this latest fiasco......I cannot help but think we were driven into this war by a crazed meglamanic (and George Bush).

Whilst admitting to being a bit blue around the gills, the Falklands War(IMHO) was totally engineered by Maggie and MOD, who managed to manipulate the press and the population to allow her to sweep into power for a second term, not to mention all the arms sales, Harriers etc. A war they had plenty of information about prior to the event and could have stopped it by send a destroyer before it ever happened. Shameful, needless, loss of life.
The Gulf war, an adventure in which Bush Enterprises Inc., was seen to be the freer of poor little Kuwait, a chunk of land stolen from the Iraqi's by Britain and America in the first place.

Duplicity.............Ha!!

All IMHO of course

Show me a politician and I'll show you a liar.

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[Captain_Chaos]

Re: Come on guys credit where it\'s due

So how exactly did Maggie induce Galtieri to invade the Falklands islands?
How did Bush senior get Saddam to invade Kuwait?

Both of these wars could be justified because they related to invasions of sovereign territories or perhaps you consider invasion to be an acceptable act? Perhapos you are right. Perhaps hitler should have been allowed the freedom of europe!

The latest fiasco is totally different. Bliar and Campbell hoodwinked the public into supporting war on totally spurious grounds. Campbell even did a cut and paste job on a 12 year old thesis that he found on the internet and passed it off as intelligence! ( I dont recall the pompous hypocritical barsteward apologising or resigning over that).

I seem to recall that after the Falklands, there was an independent inquiry into the circumstances leading up to the conflict. What are the chances of Tony Bliar following this precedent?...only if he could get Hutton to do it?


Now you've gone and got all worked up again, so I'm going for a lie down in a darkened room.

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[ParaHandy]

Re: Come on guys credit where it\'s due

on the subject of Blair's foreign exploits, i do think you are wrong imho? he's got plenty of previous. the ultimatum to milosevic delivered at rambouillet by Madelaine Albright, blair and John Gilbert was solely designed to provide a reason to go to war ... iraq was just another exquisite use of words, again?

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[Bejasus]

Re: Come on guys credit where it\'s due

So how exactly did Maggie induce Galtieri to invade the Falklands islands?

I didn't say she did. I said she allowed him to.
After being given warnings by British businessmen in Argentina for perhaps up to a year prior to the event. Also SAS/SBS on the ground in Argentina, anything up to 3 months prior to the invasion. Also plenty of US intelligence available.

How did Bush senior get Saddam to invade Kuwait?
Do you really believe the greatest intelligence gathering system on the planet, wasn't aware of what was going on?

Don't get me wrong, I know who I am, where I come from and what I believe in. I'm just not naive enough to believe the crap anymore.

The biggest danger here, imho, is that everything we are supposed to believe in and what our constitution is based on, is crumbling to dust around us, slowly but surely. Without some semblance of truth, what is left.

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[Chris_Robb]

Re: Speaks for itself

Nor have the Conservatives -

And Jimi - There was somthing very serious to hide re the reasons sold to jo - public about going to war. One man - Kelly could have blown it wide open. I have absolutely no doubt that he was pressurized by Bliar and co at the commons select commitee hearing to deny that he had talked about the 45 minute rubbish. I have absolutly no doubt that the gist of Gilligans story is true - would you need to write it down to remember him saying that?

So there was every motive for something underhand to have happened.


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[Chris_Robb]

Re: Come on guys credit where it\'s due

>poor little Kuwait, a chunk of land stolen from the Iraqi's by Britain and America in the first place.<

Put like that - the Kuwaitess are very much in the same position then as Israel. - both are usurpers unless you think 1000 years of absence gives rights!


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[jimi]

Re: Speaks for itself

Agree. Investigative journalism by its very nature will occasionally be incorrect .. and to only publish what is 100% correct or is "beyond reasonable doubt" rather than "on the balance of probabilities" stories published would lead to the death of investigative journalism ... much to the detriment of democracy. Oh and is'nt the suppression of a free press one of the symptoms of a dictatorship?

.. and I'm not convinced Hutton exonerates the Govt anyway .. it would seem to me that there has been spin put on it by the Govt to get everyone to beleive what they would like 'em to.

Anyway another issue then appears

If there are no WMD found
1)then the Parliament and the voting public have been deceived by the executive.
2)If the executive acted in good faith on information they beleived to be true then if I were the executive I'd be wishing to launch a full and open enquiry into why that intelligence was so seriously incorrect.


If there are no WMD found and the executive were not acting in good faith or their assessment of the intelligence was suspect.

Parliament ought to be launching a full investigation into the deception.

Either way a full public enquiry needs to be launched.

The problems with Hutton should ensure that the appropriate scope is properly set and the process and personnel involved are open to much more scrutiny.

I feel the consequences of Hutton will be beneficial for this country in the longer term ... AS LONG IS THERE IS THAT ENQUIRY. ... otherwise we're in Bliarograd


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