Wiring in 2000w inverter

ltcom said:
As someone who may buy such an inverter one day and as a non electriacal knowledgeable person, are you saying that the inverter the OP has bought should only have one outlet? The picture shows 2 outlets but you say only ever use one at a time? I would be thinking of the unit simply being wired into the battery bank and the unit screwed to a bulkhead (what you guys are calling a "floating system" I think.
Thanks
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There are literally millions of these things fitted to boats, motorhomes, caravans, sheds, vans. being used for camping etc, etc etc. Many of them have two outlets. A good quality one is perfectly safe to use if it's being used as intended. Not everyone wants/needs a fully installed AC inverter system.

Matthew insists he always connect the earth to the boats earthing system, yet the Durite inverter cannot be connected in this way, as it will not work when the boats DC negative is connected to the inverter earth. As for never fitting such things, the Durite inverter that he used for testing just happened to be in stock at the boatyard where he works, they just happen to be Durite stockists.;););)
 
Personally, i have absolutely no hesitation whatsoever to say that i learn new things as part of my job. If i didn't, i'd still be changing points and fixing dynamos. I regularly come across situations that i haven't seen before, it would be impossible to have seen everything when it comes to boats, there are so many different bits of equipment that it's not possible to have seen every possible combination. Many years of experience allows one to quickly assimilate some new knowledge and add that to the experience, only for some manufacturer or another to bring out a new bit of kit that we have to learn about.

I imagine that almost everyone reading these forums is doing the same, that's really why we're here, isn't it ? To share what we know and learn something new ?
 
PaulRainbow said:
There are literally millions of these things fitted to boats, motorhomes, caravans, sheds, vans. being used for camping etc, etc etc. Many of them have two outlets. A good quality one is perfectly safe to use if it's being used as intended. Not everyone wants/needs a fully installed AC inverter system.

Matthew insists he always connect the earth to the boats earthing system, yet the Durite inverter cannot be connected in this way, as it will not work when the boats DC negative is connected to the inverter earth. As for never fitting such things, the Durite inverter that he used for testing just happened to be in stock at the boatyard where he works, they just happen to be Durite stockists.;););)
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Thanks
 
Firstly, all inverter installations I carry out are earthed. I only fit Mastervolt or Victron inverters suitable for a marine environment. I certainly would never allow a Chinese imported "thing" from Amazon, eBay, etc to be signed off or commissioned by me or my team.

Secondly, I don't purchase Durite inverters. Neither myself as a dealer or the companies I work for as dealers hold stock of Durite inverters. In all cases, we use Durite for consumables.

Thirdly, the Durite inverter that I tested on my video was removed from a motorhome approx 3 years ago that had been involved in an accident and written off. The board date was actually 2010 manufacture.

Lastly, the manual for that inverter I played with advises to connect the case to the vehicle chassis in the case of a vehicle, the grounding system on a vessel or to earth in a land installation. Quite why the inverter behaved the way it did when I did just that, is strange. The inverter up to that point as working as I'd used it before. Maybe I need to get hold of another one.


PaulRainbow said:
Matthew insists he always connect the earth to the boats earthing system, yet the Durite inverter cannot be connected in this way, as it will not work when the boats DC negative is connected to the inverter earth. As for never fitting such things, the Durite inverter that he used for testing just happened to be in stock at the boatyard where he works, they just happen to be Durite stockists.;););)
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matthewriches said:
...

Lastly, the manual for that inverter I played with advises to connect the case to the vehicle chassis in the case of a vehicle, the grounding system on a vessel or to earth in a land installation. .....
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Is 'case' the same as the third pin of the 230V socket, the conductor formerly known as 'E'?
 
matthewriches said:
The case is strapped to the Earth pin in the socket.
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Is the earth pin connected to anywhere else and if no where did the voltage you measures or is that voltage due to the earth being floating and high impedance voltmeter

Does anyone have a circuit diagram of the output of this type of inverter.
 
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I've just got it back out again to look inside later on. The dam thing still won't output 230V now even on L & N. Only about 100V. It is broken.... The multi meter I use can measure true voltage.

I might carry out an experiment to see how quickly it sinks to the bottom of the Blyth but that would be environmentally damaging.

Rogershaw said:
Is the earth pin connected to anywhere else and if no where did the voltage you measures or is that voltage due to the earth being floating and high impedance voltmeter

Does anyone have a circuit diagram of the output of this type of inverter.
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matthewriches said:
Firstly, all inverter installations I carry out are earthed.
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Of course, all AC source installations should be earthed and should have the earth bonded to the neutral. portable devices are not installations. Does every one with a portable generator connect them to the boats earth circuit ?

I only fit Mastervolt or Victron inverters suitable for a marine environment. I certainly would never allow a Chinese imported "thing" from Amazon, eBay, etc to be signed off or commissioned by me or my team.

Secondly, I don't purchase Durite inverters. Neither myself as a dealer or the companies I work for as dealers hold stock of Durite inverters. In all cases, we use Durite for consumables.
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Odd choice of words for someone who only works in a boatyard, or have you left Southwold boatyard and started your own business :confused:
 
Rogershaw said:
I used to connect my portable generator into the shore power socket on my boat and as such I would connect the earth and neutral at the generator output socket whatever type it was.
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Nothing wrong with that, it then becomes "installed".

I can't imagine everyone will suitcase or site generators does the same though.

Just connecting the earth to a portable AC source increases the danger. Your method above offers the same protection as a shore power installation, because you are supplying power through the boats electrical systems, RCD, MCBs, earth system etc.
 
Even with a suitcase or site generator if there is a RCD between the generator on the appliances connecting earth and neutral would be needed to allow the RCD to trip. Better still a connection to a "earth spike" or to ground would provide an alternate path for any leakage current.

I have always considered what would would happen if there was an internal short from the live side to the metal case of either a suitcase generator or inverter as there cold be no leakage current flow through the external RCD.
 
Rogershaw said:
Even with a suitcase or site generator if there is a RCD between the generator on the appliances connecting earth and neutral would be needed to allow the RCD to trip. Better still a connection to a "earth spike" or to ground would provide an alternate path for any leakage current.
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Again, if you do all of that it becomes an "installation" and has to comply with all of the rules for an installed AC power source.

I have always considered what would would happen if there was an internal short from the live side to the metal case of either a suitcase generator or inverter as there cold be no leakage current flow through the external RCD.
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If it's a fully isolated portable supply nothing will happen if there is a L to case short, you'd need at least another fault (and failure of any internal safety protocols) to get a shock. There would be no point in fitting an RCD. If you earth the device you make it more dangerous and you have to fit an RCD and bond N-E, again making it an installation.

Not sure why so many people don't seem to get the concept of fully isolated or portable :confused:
 
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PaulRainbow said:
Not sure why so many people don't seem to get the concept of fully isolated or portable :confused:
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If it not a fully insulated supply like my generator via a shore power socket with the N E connection.

Where should the chassis of the generator be connected

matthew made a comment about the inverter that he tested had a connection from the earth pin in the socket to the case. Now it you then connect the socket earth pin to the socket neutral pin you now have the neutral connected to the case. If you connect the earth wire to he neutral pin with no connection to the socket earth pin the neutral will not b connected to the case.

What would happen if there was an internal short in an inverter or generator and a person touched the case of the generator. The case of the generator would be live and only possibility is for an overload to trip.

I once dropped the lead from my suitcase generator in the sea and the only thing that happened was the generator laboured and nothing tripped. I did get a shock when I pulled the lead out of the sea.
 
I've checked a few more inverters available on the market and they keep mentioning about grounding "The chassis ground lug must be connected to the grounding point" or along those lines.

https://www.streetwizeaccessories.c...1-44fc-a4b3-a7bb00f3e215/SWINV2000 Manual.pdf

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technical/DataSheets/Inverters/Page17.htm

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...wave_inverters_instructions_2006a_rfs.pdf?486

https://quasarelectronics.co.uk/product-files/skytronic/rpi530.pdf

http://www.photonicuniverse.com/upload/file/Manuals/IP_Inverters/User_Manual_IP_inverters.pdf


No where have I explicitly read that it is ok to use this inverter with no ground connection being made.

It can be deduced with some electrical understanding and I personally don't see an issue of using anything like what the OP has, the Durite inverter I used in my video or any type of isolation transformer product with just 1 piece of equipment plugged in at a time, and I have done many times with my truck inverter. I've used it to power an angle grinder or a laptop charger or a site light. One product at a time. Example, I've never seen multiple shaver sockets fed from the same isolating transformer.



Not really relevant to the thread but I don't just work in a boatyard, you know that :rolleyes:

PaulRainbow said:
Odd choice of words for someone who only works in a boatyard, or have you left Southwold boatyard and started your own business :confused:
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PaulRainbow said:
It was a question.
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If you were asking if the N conductor at the 3 pin socket is directly bonded to the 'E' pin, or if they are closely bonded to the same point, then, no, because Matthew measures 90V or something across these pins.

If the L and N pins on that socket are really 120V ac, zero phase and 120V ac 180deg phase, and there is an internal 'neutral' 0V AC connect to the E pin by an (unknown) impedance that would explain a few things?

I'd be interested to see a schematic and/or the lid off.
 
lw395 said:
If you were asking if the N conductor at the 3 pin socket is directly bonded to the 'E' pin, or if they are closely bonded to the same point, then, no, because Matthew measures 90V or something across these pins.
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No, i asked if the E pin (if we're sticking with your terminology) is internally bonded to the inverter neutral.

If the L and N pins on that socket are really 120V ac, zero phase and 120V ac 180deg phase, and there is an internal 'neutral' 0V AC connect to the E pin by an (unknown) impedance that would explain a few things?

I'd be interested to see a schematic and/or the lid off.
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That's what i'm wondering. In the initial tests we saw a voltage reading between L-E and N-E, which would suggest (if the reading are anything like true (Matthew said his meter shows true voltage) )
 
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