Wiring Diagram help

[Yellow Ballad]

I need to rewire my boat as it's just a mess, I have no idea what's what at the moment (don't worry I'll be working out the old stuff before ripping anything out).

I've designed a wiring diagram but would like some eyes to look over it to make sure it's in order. (I know I could have designed it neater but it works for me, and some of the symbols might mean something different but hopefully you get what it means)

Really what I want to check is

1, Can I run all the cabin lights through one switched breaker (as long as it's in spec)?
2, Same with the Nav lights, as long as I can switch between them are they ok with one breaker?
3, 12v power sockets ok with breaker or should each be fused?
4, ACR and solar controller, link them both to the engine battery and the ACR charge the "house" when it decided, or solar controller on "house" and "alternator" on the engine as it's dual sensing?
5, I assume it's best practice for the engine + be switched through the battery switch to the starter solenoid or do people leave it live and just the solenoid wire/engine panel + through the switch? (as with a motorcycle)
6 Anything else you think I've missed (fuse/switch etc).

Many Thanks

Tom

http://2wheels1keel.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Sundance.jpg

Panel I want to ise.

http://2wheels1keel.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/ELECsml.png

 

[VicS]

First observations/ comments:

VCR* is not wired correctly ?? ( dotted wire ????)

alternator charge/warning light is nor wired correctly ?

Not sure about the ganged isolator switches. There might be times when you only want the domestics powered up eg during engine maintenance/ repairs. Possibly might be times when you want the engine powered up but not the domestics

The battery isolator switches should be local to the batteries ... i assume the other switches will be near the chart table or other convenient location

tacho needs power ( + and - ) and signal

Might want bilge pump and fridge on individual supplies direct from battery so that they can be left on when all else is off​

Will take another look later

Edit:
* Sorry its not a VSR .... why not use a VSR?

 

[wizzer]

Whilst I haven't scutinised the wiring diagram, I have always included an "always on" circuit when rewiring any of the several boats I have rewired over the years. The "always on" circuit is (in my installations) protected by a fuse close to the battery. This allows for bilge pumping (& anything else which would benefit from an uninterrupted supply) to be on when the main circuits are off.
Blue Sea Systems are my favourite for the hardware and they also have a few examples of different wiring diagrams for different boats on their website. Top quality kit priced to reflect this.

 

[pvb]

6 Anything else you think I've missed (fuse/switch etc).

You should fuse the main battery wires, right next to each battery/bank.

 

[VicS]

Sorry forgot to answer your specific questions

1 yes but might consider splitting it up into 2 or more circuits so that they are not all dependent on the one fuse
2 yes if you want one .... Individual light circuits should be fused with appropriate size fuses.
3 common breaker OK but they should also be individually fused.
4 Not happy about your combining relay. It commons the batteries so that you always start on both but then opens again leaving no way that the domestic battery is being charged. I'd opt for a manual combining switch that can be closed if necessary and use a dual sensing y VSR to charge the domestic battery with the solar going to the domestic battery rather than the engine battery.
5 OK as shown ... i think ??​

Not entirely happy with your battery switching/charging/combining circuits

 

[sarabande]

point of curiosity. What graphics software are you using please ?

 

[pvb]

4 Not happy about your combining relay. It commons the batteries so that you always start on both but then opens again leaving no way that the domestic battery is being charged. I'd opt for a manual combining switch that can be closed if necessary and use a dual sensing y VSR to charge the domestic battery with the solar going to the domestic battery rather than the engine battery.

If it's the type of relay I think it is, your comment doesn't apply. It's probably something like the Blue Sea ACR, which is dual-sensing. It also has a connection to the start circuit, which prevents it from combining when the starter is operating (ie only the start battery is used to start the engine).

 

[VicS]

If it's the type of relay I think it is, your comment doesn't apply. It's probably something like the Blue Sea ACR, which is dual-sensing. It also has a connection to the start circuit, which prevents it from combining when the starter is operating (ie only the start battery is used to start the engine).

In which case it is depicted wrongly, or at least confusingly. It appears to be shown as a relay which is energised when and, only when, the engine is being cranked.

If it's what you think it is then that's a different matter

 

[Sandy]

point of curiosity. What graphics software are you using please ?

and me...

I've been using Viso, but that looks much better.

 

[pvb]

In which case it is depicted wrongly, or at least confusingly. It appears to be shown as a relay which is energised when and, only when, the engine is being cranked.

Agreed, but I think that's just a standard symbol for a relay in whatever drawing package he used. He did describe it as an ACR, and said it was dual-sensing.

 

[VicS]

He did describe it as an ACR, and said it was dual-sensing

Got it! An SI-ACR .

I should not be doing this. Children coming this weekend .......... Not done any housework for months .... They will probably put me in a home if they see the state of the place.

 

[pvb]

Got it! An SI-ACR .

Could be, or might be the lower-rated M-ACR, which PBO featured in an article this year - http://www.pbo.co.uk/expert-advice/installing-a-automatic-charging-relay-acr-26108

 

[skipmac]

Whilst I haven't scutinised the wiring diagram, I have always included an "always on" circuit when rewiring any of the several boats I have rewired over the years. The "always on" circuit is (in my installations) protected by a fuse close to the battery. This allows for bilge pumping (& anything else which would benefit from an uninterrupted supply) to be on when the main circuits are off.
Blue Sea Systems are my favourite for the hardware and they also have a few examples of different wiring diagrams for different boats on their website. Top quality kit priced to reflect this.

Same for me on all of the above.

Always on circuit for bilge pump and I also connect a small, LED courtesy light.

Love the Blue Seas kit.

 

[skipmac]

I need to rewire my boat as it's just a mess, I have no idea what's what at the moment (don't worry I'll be working out the old stuff before ripping anything out).

I've designed a wiring diagram but would like some eyes to look over it to make sure it's in order. (I know I could have designed it neater but it works for me, and some of the symbols might mean something different but hopefully you get what it means)

Really what I want to check is

1, Can I run all the cabin lights through one switched breaker (as long as it's in spec)?
2, Same with the Nav lights, as long as I can switch between them are they ok with one breaker?
3, 12v power sockets ok with breaker or should each be fused?
4, ACR and solar controller, link them both to the engine battery and the ACR charge the "house" when it decided, or solar controller on "house" and "alternator" on the engine as it's dual sensing?
5, I assume it's best practice for the engine + be switched through the battery switch to the starter solenoid or do people leave it live and just the solenoid wire/engine panel + through the switch? (as with a motorcycle)
6 Anything else you think I've missed (fuse/switch etc).

Many Thanks

Tom

http://2wheels1keel.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Sundance.jpg

Panel I want to ise.

http://2wheels1keel.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/ELECsml.png

Hi Tom.

If the large switch on the left side of the panel is the item I think I rejected that for my rewiring project. Again, if it's the model I believe, it only allows combining a second battery to help start the engine if the main start battery is low. Good idea BUT if the start battery is totally dead or shorted then combining a good battery to the bad one will possibly drain the good one or, if the start battery is shorted, possibly serious overheating and a fire as the good battery dumps full power into the short.

For emergency start function I much prefer using switches on the house bank and the start battery wired so one can select 1 or 2 or Both as source for engine starting. The main start battery to 1, the house bank to 2. Then if the engine start battery is bad just switch to 2 for cranking.

 

[nigelmercier]

point of curiosity. What graphics software are you using please ?

I use Illustrator, but this looks much better for the job.

 

[Yellow Ballad]

Sorry, I'm at work so I should have explained a bit more/better but trying to write a post and work is a right pain in the backside! Who needs to earn money eh....

This is the webapp http://www.digikey.co.uk/schemeit/ , it's free so I used it, but as someones mentioned (and I put in the OP) the symbols might not be right but "fitted"( I tried to note what things are ). The ganged isolator switches are "switchable devices" to me. I should have put a "key" in before posting but again in a rush.

I was looking at using Blue Sea stuff, these.

https://www.bluesea.com/products/6011200/m-Series_Mini_Dual_Circuit_Plus_Battery_Switch_-_Black

https://www.bluesea.com/products/7601/m-Series__Automatic_Charging_Relay_-_12_24V_DC_65A

https://www.bluesea.com/products/5026/ST_Blade_Fuse_Block_-_12_Circuits_with_Negative_Bus_and_Cover

The engine side of the diagram isn't complete (tacho +/- and a few other bit as pointed out), I had to add the switch in to show the "Start Isolation" so decided to show the other things on the engine panel for my use. It was more the ACR, Solar controller wiring I wanted to check. As well as if the cabin lights needed to be individually fused as well as through the CB (seems ott?). I was thinking about just one 12v power socket at the nav table but with the option of adding more in the future but again if these needed to be fused as well as the breaker.

24hr circuits was a consideration, and I'll look to add some. I was trying to keep the switches, circuits as simple as possible.

I had planned on fitting the panel around the companionway, the batteries are in the V-berth at the moment with a huge cable run back to the engine and I want to move them behind the engine like this. http://yachtauriga.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/current-affairs_12.html Will a sub 2m run to the battery switch be to much?

Sorry another rushed reply (I'll have a read of the comments later and post when I'm home... If my 3 month old is sleeping!)

Tom

 

[pvb]

As well as if the cabin lights needed to be individually fused as well as through the CB (seems ott?).

They don't need to be fused individually, but you might consider splitting them into 2 sub-groups, and either fusing these groups separately, or having 2 breakers for the cabin lights. The advantage of this is if you get a fault which trips a breaker or blows a fuse, half of the cabin lights will still work! Similarly, I wouldn't bother to fuse all of the electronics individually, but perhaps break them into 2 or 3 sub-groups.

I was thinking about just one 12v power socket at the nav table but with the option of adding more in the future but again if these needed to be fused as well as the breaker.

It largely depends on what sort of things you're planning to use the sockets for. Ordinary cigar-lighter type sockets are usually rated for around 15A, so you need to use appropriate cable to allow for that current. The fuse or breaker is primarily there to protect the cable, so you'd probably be OK with just one breaker.

It's probably worth fitting a USB outlet too, as these are increasingly useful for charging phones, iPads, iPods, etc.

Will a sub 2m run to the battery switch be to much?

No, not too much at all. But put a fuse as close to the battery as possible in each circuit.

 

[Yellow Ballad]

1, Can I run all the cabin lights through one switched breaker (as long as it's in spec)?
2, Same with the Nav lights, as long as I can switch between them are they ok with one breaker?

Sorry forgot to answer your specific questions

1 yes but might consider splitting it up into 2 or more circuits so that they are not all dependent on the one fuse
2 yes if you want one .... Individual light circuits should be fused with appropriate size fuses.
​

I'm a little confused by this, the cabin lights and nav lights are essentially the same diagram apart from the nav lights the switches are on a panel where the cabin lights the switches are on the light.

In answer No2, are you saying each light circuit should have a fuse after the CB? (Running/Tri/Steaming/Anchor) If so then why would I not need to do this on the cabin lights? Or do you mean as long as the Cabin Lights run through a CB and the Nav through another that's ok?

I may just be reading it wrong, but thought I would check.

PVB, noted on the battery cable fuses, I've just been looking at the "cube" fuses on terminals which look like a good idea.

Skip, I have a 1-2-both switch at the moment. I wanted to do away with this as 1, it could have come from the QE2 it's so hugh and 2, with the ACR I shouldn't have to worry about switching (or not) batteries to charge them, let alone leaving them combined and draining them. I imagine the "cube" fuses should protect me from combining to a shorted battery.

So what are the thoughts on the ACR/Solar Controller. Both on starter battery (I think I would like to keep the starter battery topped up) or altenator on starter and solar on house as the ACR will flip between the two? What happens if I'm running the engine on a sunny day, will the ACR cope sensing a charge from both sides at the same time? I assume it'll just link the batteries and they will absorb whatever charge they need.

Tom​

 

[superheat6k]

I used the Bluesea fused distributor blocks when I rewired my Turbo 36 distribution panel. If you go to Barden Batteries near Fareham, say you are trade (any trade !) and you should get a decent discount.

I then used miniature MCBs from RS instead of blade fuses. The lid won't fit with these, but so what. You can see at a glance if one has tripped, and they can easily be reset.

This link has the RS part numbers of the various MCB ratings.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ysnosuvo9hsu58m/Ocean Belle Dist Wiring 2014.pdf?dl=0

I agree with VicS that your charge light won't work, it needs to be fed from 12v +VE, normally ignition switched, and apart from your odd switch like symbol for the loads, the rest looks fine. I am not familiar with VSRs - I consider them completely unnecessary, and place an unnecessary volts drop on the charge system, but thats just me !

 

[VicS]

1, Can I run all the cabin lights through one switched breaker (as long as it's in spec)?
2, Same with the Nav lights, as long as I can switch between them are they ok with one breaker?



I'm a little confused by this, the cabin lights and nav lights are essentially the same diagram apart from the nav lights the switches are on a panel where the cabin lights the switches are on the light.

In answer No2, are you saying each light circuit should have a fuse after the CB? (Running/Tri/Steaming/Anchor) If so then why would I not need to do this on the cabin lights? Or do you mean as long as the Cabin Lights run through a CB and the Nav through another that's ok?

I may just be reading it wrong, but thought I would check.

PVB, noted on the battery cable fuses, I've just been looking at the "cube" fuses on terminals which look like a good idea.

Skip, I have a 1-2-both switch at the moment. I wanted to do away with this as 1, it could have come from the QE2 it's so hugh and 2, with the ACR I shouldn't have to worry about switching (or not) batteries to charge them, let alone leaving them combined and draining them. I imagine the "cube" fuses should protect me from combining to a shorted battery.

So what are the thoughts on the ACR/Solar Controller. Both on starter battery (I think I would like to keep the starter battery topped up) or altenator on starter and solar on house as the ACR will flip between the two? What happens if I'm running the engine on a sunny day, will the ACR cope sensing a charge from both sides at the same time? I assume it'll just link the batteries and they will absorb whatever charge they need.

Tom

I thought there were so many minor circuits on the one master cabin light switch and fuse they could be split into two. Forward cabin and main cabin circuits perhaps. then you always have half woking if there as fault ( a bit like having upstairs and down stairs lights on separate circuits in your home)

all my nav lights are on one fuse ....... I have often though that could be a mistake in the event of a fault occurring. If each circuit is independently fuse a fault would only put the one circuit out of action.

Yes I will run with the idea of cube fuses.

I still think there is a problem with the choice of dual circuit isolator. But I find the Blue Sea wbite and theirdescriptions and specifications unbelievably confusing