Wintering a boat in Norway - not all plain sailing

[hans]

Yachting Monthly have in the last year run some rather flattering articles on cruising in Norway (David Lomax oct 2008 and Solfrid Surland February 2010). We would like to provide some further information on the issue of leaving a yacht in Norway for extended periods of time.

It is quite correct as the authors point out that Norwegian Customs in many locations will look favourable on a request for wintering a boat in the country. This relates particularly to the West coast and Northern Norway. It should however be emphasized that this policy is not supported by central authorities at Customs and Excise office in Oslo. Members of the Cruising Association who have approached central authorities in recent years are told VAT exemption can be granted for 12 months, but only if the boat is placed in bonded store. For all practical purposes this is a circumscriptive way of saying "No, we will not allow it".

An exception seems to be made if the boat owner stays with the boat for 10 ½ out of the 12 months. This practice appears to be based on regulations that apply to foreign nationals bringing their car to Norway. The wording may make sense for a person with work permit, who wants to leave a car in Norway while visiting his native country on holidays. Applying the same law to boats seems a serious case of confusing apples with oranges.

Two problems arise:
1. Living in your boat in Norway in wintertime is cold. Few long distance cruisers will want to subject themselves to this experience. Local yachts go in winter storage and there is no logical reason anything else should apply to foreign yachts.
2. Immigration authorities will grant foreign visitors a 3 month stay. This also applies to those who do not require a visa. So while one set of rule insists owner of boat stays with the boat 10 ½ months in a 12 month period, another set of rules will allow same crew 3 months with the boat. Catch 22! We know of at least two examples where foreign live-aboards have had trouble with authorities over this issue.

There is some information in English at the official websites www.toll.no and www.udi.no. The Cruising Association home page (Baltic section) and the e-book www.norwegiancruisingguide.com both have more information on the issue.

Norwegian yachts cruising the EU are generally granted 18 month VAT exemption. As a non-EU country Norway appears surprisingly eager to adjust to EU legislation on many issues. In this regard the formal attitude of Norwegian Customs and Excise to long distance cruisers is surprising. Norwegian yachtsmen would love to see more sailors from the UK in our waters, and Norwegian boat yards would welcome the business opportunity provided.

We have on several occasions pointed out the serious flaws in the current practice of the central Norwegian Customs and Excise Office. There is an increasing interest in the issue among Norwegian yachtsmen. It would be of interest to learn of any negative experience UK sailors have had in dealing with Norwegian customs on the issue.

Kind regards,


Hans Jakob Valderhaug
Cruising Association HLR Oslo
Norwegian correspondent www.norwegiancruisingguide.com

 

[temptress]

Seems nothing has changed since the 90s

Whilst it was a while ago (1993-5) I kept my boat in Norway and lived onboard in the Oslo area including 1 winter onboard. I had continuous problems with Norwegian customs and eventually left Norway because of them.

The issues were caused by very obstructive (and officious) officials, complicated rules that did not fit the situation, a complete lack of ANY understanding and no willing to try an address any issues. It completely spoilt my experience of the country. The attitude seemed to be ‘we are so great and wonderful you should be grateful to be here and do whatever we dictate.

Seems from you post nothing has changed.

 

[Viking]

I have been trying to encourage UK yachtsman to visit North-west Norwegian coast.
I have even tried to set up a coastal 'help-line' for visitors.
The question alway arises VAT/MVA bond!. Some of those I have spoken to, who have come. It seems that if you are straight with TOLL regarding your cruising plans, you may get little problems. But now and again you do get "jobs-worth". Or more it can depend on where you first land!
But I agree its along way (and expense) to come from UK to only find out when you get here, how long you can stay for!
I also agree that Norway is eager to adjust to EU regs. (as long as the regs brings income for the Goverment beneifit, ie taxation).
The attitude "we are so great...etc" is not one I have experienced. I found it more, "what the hell do you want to come here for? But we are pleased to you made the effort"
A greater understanding of 'modern' cruising by the Norwegian authorities would help and attract more 'tourist income' ie MVA.

 

[Ubergeekian]

Yachting Monthly have in the last year run some rather flattering articles on cruising in Norway (David Lomax oct 2008 and Solfrid Surland February 2010). We would like to provide some further information on the issue of leaving a yacht in Norway for extended periods of time.

I have a medium term plan for trip from Scotland via Shetland to Norway, then on through the Swedish canals to the Baltic and back via the English Channel, to be done over several years. Is Sweden easier for overwintering, do you know?

 

[BabaYaga]

Hi, I'm no expert in these matters, but since Sweden is a EU country I think normally there will be no problem to overwinter a UK yacht here. Might be different though, if the original VAT has not been paid or if the yacht is very new.

 

[Viking]

Here in Norway (Ålesund) anyway. We have in our marina overwintered boats from UK, France, Switzerland, Sweden and Germany, with no problems.
Regarding VAT/MVA. Here you have to pay Norwegian MVA even if VAT has been paid in another country.

 

[Ubergeekian]

Regarding VAT/MVA. Here you have to pay Norwegian MVA even if VAT has been paid in another country.

Is it refunded again on permanent export?

 

[hans]

I would be surprised if VAT refund was given to a privately registered yacht. Regarding wintering a yacht in Sweden this should present no problem as stated above, since Sweden is in the EU. The Cruising Association "Baltic Lay-up Directory" will have detailed information.
Hans

 

[Dyflin]

One of the essential overwintering items in the Bergen region this year has been the chainsaw...

And for the speedboat brigade, a car
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV-cv5ahocc

 

[Ubergeekian]

I would be surprised if VAT refund was given to a privately registered yacht. Regarding wintering a yacht in Sweden this should present no problem as stated above, since Sweden is in the EU. The Cruising Association "Baltic Lay-up Directory" will have detailed information.

Thank you.

 

[thedoc]

really?

I have spoken to quite a few people about overwintering in Norway and none seem to have experienced the potential horrors mentioned here. Are these stories the anxious hype which seems de riguer these days or can you produce someone who has had to fork out a very large amount of money?

 

[dovekie]

Perosnal experience in case it helps:

UK yacht. 2000-2005 in Norway. Entered at Bergen. Applied for exemption to stay 1 year, which went (from Bergen customs) to the Trondheim tax office (not Oslo) and was officially approved. Renewed exemption granted each year for 5 years, via the customs office of whichever port we were staying (all were well North), all were sent on to the Trondheim office, and always exemption was granted.

 

[steve206]

Norway

I went skiing in Norway this year - 4 hours of daylight in the winter.

I dont envy anyone who has to winter in Norway - those pictures look nuts!

If your anyone is interested in getting more qualified in yachting check out my signature to see whats required.

 

[puddock]

I went skiing in Norway this year - 4 hours of daylight in the winter.

I dont envy anyone who has to winter in Norway - those pictures look nuts!

If your anyone is interested in getting more qualified in yachting check out my signature to see whats required.

What signature?

 

[roger]

Overwintering in Norway - the law

The law in Norway is clear enough. If you leave your boa in Norway you are deemed to have imported it and pay import duty of around 25%
There is a very similar law for cars and aeroplanes. Norway charges high import duties and many and various are the ways Norwegians seek to avoid paying them hence the rigour of the legislation.
Equally enforcement is shall we say variable an there are cases of people avoiding import duty.However the risk is always there and the law is on the authorities side.
Incidentally when entering Norway you should notify said authorities so that they start a clock running to allow you to cruise for one year only. If you dont notify them, they could assume you have been there cruising for more than the permitted year.
As for laying up in Sweden, Finland etc. It is pretty easy- we have done it for years.
Start early in the season checking out lay-up sites as they get booked early.
The cheapest is probably to join a boat club, accept the fixed haul out/put in dates and do the work required by the club.
Outside storaqge is cheapest of the options at commercial yards but be aware of the low temperatures - lower in the Baltic than the Skaggerrak/Kattegat.
I'm paying about 600 Swedish Krona per sq. metre plus 25% VAT for a heated shed and cradle but this is a good deal. Cold sheds are cheaper
I suspect Finland to be dearer. In 2008 I paid 30 euros a night in some marinas.
Poland will be chaper and Germany perfectly reasonable. The CA provides a lay-up directory for members giving much information,

 

[hans]

I have spoken to quite a few people about overwintering in Norway and none seem to have experienced the potential horrors mentioned here. Are these stories the anxious hype which seems de riguer these days or can you produce someone who has had to fork out a very large amount of money?

thedoc has a good point. I have 3rd hand information on a Swedish yacht that was charged VAT and 2nd hand information on a British (RCC) yacht that was charged VAT spring 2009 (Narvik area?). However when trying to investigate further noone can confirm these incidents. The RCC yacht owner reportedly was a previous senior consultant with KPMG and is supposed to have contacted the Oslo brach for help. Maybe he eventually had the VAT refunded as suggested by someone previously on this thread? I do however have positive information on two US liveaboard crews that were threatened with "eviction" midwinter, one wintering in Svolvær and one in Namsos. Their troubles were however related to inmmigration issues having overstayed their three month visas. Both crews were eventually allowed to stay after their problems made the national press. The experience of the yacht in Svolvær is vividly described in Dave and Jaja Martins' book "Into the Light - a Family's Epic Journey".

We would be very interested in information from someone with first-hand experience of having to pay VAT for wintering a yacht in Norway! This would be useful in placing pressures on the politicians who - after all - make our rules and regulations.
Hans

 

[hans]

Wintering a boat in Norway - new information

There is an addition to Norwegian Customs rules. While the new text seems to have been agreed upon May 2009, I was only recently made aware of it.
The body of the text (§ 6-1) is unchanged, ie VAT exemption can be granted for 12 months, but the owner may only leave the boat behind for 6 weeks. The text specifically refers to the regulations for foreign owned cars in this respect.

There is however an interesting new section in §6 – 3 titled “Details on repairs”, which indirectly addresses the issue of wintering a boat in Norway. The text reads (my translation): “A boat that is to be repaired in Norway is VAT exempt according to §6-3. If the need for repairs appear while the boat is in Norway on VAT exemption under §6 -1, the boat needs to be declared according to §4 – 10 if the person who imported the boat according to §6-1 leaves the country while repairs take place. The responsibility for the boat is then transferred to the boat yard, and the limitations regarding leaving the boat behind do not apply. The boat must be taken out of the country within two years of arrival.

From what I can see §4 -10 implies a bureaucratic nightmare, with lots of filling in of forms. So it seems worthwhile arranging your "repairs" before arriving in the country. Few Customs officers will have experience of the addition to existing rules. It may be useful in an enquiry to customs to use wording such as “planned overhaul and repairs at xxx boatyard during oct – may, ref § 6 – 3.”

While this will not be the break-through one could hope for, it may be a useful loophole. It also seems to give legal backing to the current practice in most of western and northern Norway. The regulations may however rule out a cheap municipality dock for overwintering. It will be interesting to see how customs will adopt the new rules.

 

[jimbaerselman]

Hans,

Great information, many thanks.

You make the point that immigration rules allow people (typically) a 90 day visit, and that this differs from the permission given for the yacht's stay.

This important point is missed by many non-EU visitors to the EU and Schengen countries. And to puzzle visitors further, Norway is a Schengen country, but not in the EU; while UK is within the EU, but not a Schengen country!

Personal visas for leisure and tourism typically allow a maximum of 90 days. Within the Schengen countries, it is any 90 days in a 180 day period. Non EU boats (but not non EU crews!) will be allowed an 18 month stay before VAT is due.

Many of our transatlantic visitors have been caught in that trap, and fined. One way out is to alternate between UK and Schengen, going home for the winter, but not leaving your boat in Norway unless you're clearly sorted out with a permission to do so.

 

[WayNorth]

How to screw up cruising as a tourist industry

Sailing permit and border control

These actions are brought forth by Norway's membership in the Schengen agreement and thereby their participation in the control of the areas outer borders. Up until now the civilian control has been fragmented and the border laws from 1950 have not included border surveillance. Geographically Norway, along with Sweden and Finland, is isolated from all other member countries. The whole scheme seems a little hurried and not well thought through. OK, granted, we have only had 10 years to come up with something. Ten steps back instead of one forward.

Anyone arriving Norway from a EU country does not need to deal with a Norwegian Cruising permit. Nationals from outside the EU might find it less confusing to choose a first port of call outside Norway before making the final approach on a private yacht.

When contacting The Norwegian Immigration Directorate by e-mail concerning cruising in Norway, this is the response one gets:

 

[hans]

VAT charged for overwintering a boat in Norway

While this thread is getting rather old it seems worth while bringing an update. A Swedish couple left their Elan 33 in Mo i Rana winter 2008 - 2009, with no contact with customs. On arrival back to their Swedish home port autumn 2009 they were met with a VAT bill of approx 20 000 pounds (25% of the boat value) from Norwegian customs. Customs made no contact with the couple while the boat was in Norway. The couple have refused to pay the bill. The case is due to appear for an Oslo court autumn 2010. The case has received some media cover in Scandinavia, and a Norwegian yachting magazine has started a money-raising campaign to help fund the defense. It will be very interesting to follow the court case.