Windy 52

[spannerman]

Reading the review in MBY reminded me of a delivery nightmare I had several years ago, the dealer I worked for had taken an order for a 52 Xanthos.
The customer was an extremely wealthy person with 5 boats berthed around the world ready for use should he fly in. This boat was just a plaything, and part of the deal was that it had to fit into a boat house with slings so it could be winched out of the water when not in use (US style), it was heavy weather with the Windy punching its way 70 miles to see if it fitted the boathouse, it did, so the order was placed with just about every option available.
Came the day to deliver it, we cleaned the boat thoroughly and filled the two 1000 ltr tanks the night before, the plan was for me to drive the boat over into Stavanger harbour where the customer was on board his 120ft sailboat and do the hand over.
I went onboard to start the engines and do a last check over and when I entered the saloon there was an overpowering smell of diesel, I opened the hatch to the engine room and to my horror saw that the port shaft was under a sea of diesel, it lay along the stringers from one end of the engine room to the other and was covering the floor in the forward berth and port cabin, it had run through the A/C trunking and got into the carpets and bedding.
We found out that Windys supplier had spot welded the internal baffles in the tank incorrectly and when the fuel tried to slosh on that heavy trip to the boathouse it weakened the spot welds, then when the tanks were filled they failed allowing 1000 ltrs of diesel to leak out overnight. The salesman had to go cap in hand and explain why we couldn't deliver the boat, sooner him than me!
Then Windy said no problem we have had several incidents so we know what to do, we will send two new tanks, so after pumping the boat out I motored over to our workshops on just the starboard engine and we put her on land.
Now the fun begins, Windy said if we remove all of the equipment around the engine room the tanks will come out, now the tanks are about 10ft long and sit outboard of the D12's and are fitted before the engines and deck moulding.
I removed the generator, both aircon plants, all the batteries and associated electrics, and all other items near the tanks, we got them free but they wouldn't go through the engine hatch no matter how we twisted and turned them, and the engine room on a Xanthos is HUGE, you could fit another 2 D12's behind the existing ones. Well the new tanks had turned up and Windy assured me that they had run CAD simulations and they should come out OK. In the end they sent a guy from the factory who agreed with us, so first thing was to cut the two tanks in two so we could get them out of the engine room, but that still meant the new ones wouldn't go in, so they were sent back and made into 4 tanks with a balance pipe. Now we managed to fit two tanks per side in the small space outboard of the engines, and then reinstall the masses of kit we had removed, 2 months later we got her back on the sea and delivered to the new owner.
Typical Murphy's law, if things can go wrong they will go wrong.

 

[scubaman]

Just got back from the boat where I spent two days doing just basic maintenance tasks so I can relate to the magnitude of the job you carried out. Unbelievable. Did the smell of diesel go away completely?

 

[spannerman]

With lots of citrus spray and fairy liquid and hot water, but I am sure it got into places we couldn't reach. Fantastic boat though, as are all Windy's, they seem to have the knack of getting the boats balance spot on with every model, so they are a dream to drive even when it's lumpy enough to make a lot of other boats slow down.

 

[volvopaul]

Reading the review in MBY reminded me of a delivery nightmare I had several years ago, the dealer I worked for had taken an order for a 52 Xanthos.
The customer was an extremely wealthy person with 5 boats berthed around the world ready for use should he fly in. This boat was just a plaything, and part of the deal was that it had to fit into a boat house with slings so it could be winched out of the water when not in use (US style), it was heavy weather with the Windy punching its way 70 miles to see if it fitted the boathouse, it did, so the order was placed with just about every option available.
Came the day to deliver it, we cleaned the boat thoroughly and filled the two 1000 ltr tanks the night before, the plan was for me to drive the boat over into Stavanger harbour where the customer was on board his 120ft sailboat and do the hand over.
I went onboard to start the engines and do a last check over and when I entered the saloon there was an overpowering smell of diesel, I opened the hatch to the engine room and to my horror saw that the port shaft was under a sea of diesel, it lay along the stringers from one end of the engine room to the other and was covering the floor in the forward berth and port cabin, it had run through the A/C trunking and got into the carpets and bedding.
We found out that Windys supplier had spot welded the internal baffles in the tank incorrectly and when the fuel tried to slosh on that heavy trip to the boathouse it weakened the spot welds, then when the tanks were filled they failed allowing 1000 ltrs of diesel to leak out overnight. The salesman had to go cap in hand and explain why we couldn't deliver the boat, sooner him than me!
Then Windy said no problem we have had several incidents so we know what to do, we will send two new tanks, so after pumping the boat out I motored over to our workshops on just the starboard engine and we put her on land.
Now the fun begins, Windy said if we remove all of the equipment around the engine room the tanks will come out, now the tanks are about 10ft long and sit outboard of the D12's and are fitted before the engines and deck moulding.
I removed the generator, both aircon plants, all the batteries and associated electrics, and all other items near the tanks, we got them free but they wouldn't go through the engine hatch no matter how we twisted and turned them, and the engine room on a Xanthos is HUGE, you could fit another 2 D12's behind the existing ones. Well the new tanks had turned up and Windy assured me that they had run CAD simulations and they should come out OK. In the end they sent a guy from the factory who agreed with us, so first thing was to cut the two tanks in two so we could get them out of the engine room, but that still meant the new ones wouldn't go in, so they were sent back and made into 4 tanks with a balance pipe. Now we managed to fit two tanks per side in the small space outboard of the engines, and then reinstall the masses of kit we had removed, 2 months later we got her back on the sea and delivered to the new owner.
Typical Murphy's law, if things can go wrong they will go wrong.

A fab story which goes on to remind me every day when working on various boats I always seem to ask myself the various questions " how the hell would that come out if it had to" all in a day's work ( or months as it is most of the time)

 

[MapisM]

Reading the review in MBY reminded me of a delivery nightmare I had several years ago

Blimey, you can call it a nightmare indeed.
Your story definitely puts my wife concerns about whether a washing machine could be replaced or not (in a couple of boats we have seen where it was installed in a limited access space) in perspective...
Well done from Windy to take responsibility for all that, anyway. :encouragement:

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Well done from Windy to take responsibility for all that, anyway. :encouragement:

I would say they were 100% obligated to do so and pay all costs of the replacement too. On the subject of fuel tanks, I have noticed on Ferretti fuel tanks that there is a certificate stamped on them confirming that the tanks were inspected and pressure tested (can't remember what pressure!) before installation. Do Windy pressure test their tanks and would that test have shown up those incorrectly installed baffles? Actually I have to say that I don't understand how bad spot welds could have caused failure of the fuel tanks themselves

Anyway good story. Thanks spannerman

 

[Croftie]

Actually I have to say that I don't understand how bad spot welds could have caused failure of the fuel tanks themselves

Presumably incorrect amperage for the thickness (thinness) of the metal used. Or bad design of the baffles/no of welds used as 1000 kg sloshing around has a lot of energy.

 

[Portofino]

Blimey, you can call it a nightmare indeed.
Your story definitely puts my wife concerns about whether a washing machine could be replaced or not (in a couple of boats we have seen where it was installed in a limited access space) in perspective...
Well done from Windy to take responsibility for all that, anyway. :encouragement:

I,ve wondered that too the washing machine was bigger than the door aperture .
Saw it on SS portofino53 in the stb cabin it was in a cabinet under a bunk .
The salesman man in the blue blazer and grey slacks @ the boat show -suggested it would be taken apart to get it out ?
I did not ask - how they would get the new one in ?

 

[jfm]

I've installed 4 washing machines and tumble driers in this situation. It's easy - takes 30 mins to take to pieces with elec screwdriver, then rebuild takes an hour. Get real: it would be crazy to let the dimensions of a full sized washing machine dictate your door/hatch/corridor sizes when they are so easy to take apart and rebuild

Spannerman, respect to you for that windy 52 project. Tough work, and hard to keep up your morale when doing jobs like that. Windy made a bad mistake in allowing that to happen, but I suppose mistakes like that are going to happen from time to time

 

[MapisM]

I would say they were 100% obligated to do so and pay all costs of the replacement too.

Of course you are correct in principle.
But would you swear that no boat builder on earth would have at least tried to weld/repair the tanks somehow, hoping that they would last up to the the warranty expiration...? :ambivalence:

 

[MapisM]

I've installed 4 washing machines and tumble driers in this situation. It's easy - takes 30 mins to take to pieces with elec screwdriver, then rebuild takes an hour.

Doh! I didn't think about that. I guess that the larger single part is the drum, and when disassembled it easily goes through the 40/42 cm of a crew cabin door, correct?

 

[benjenbav]

Great story. I can relate somewhat to the smell having never forgotten an experience, 30 years ago, of fuelling up a newly purchased car which turned out to have a faulty seam in the petrol tank. At the risk of oversharing I was dry-retching for a couple of days, but I guess I was fortunate to be a non-smoker.

 

[spannerman]

I would say they were 100% obligated to do so and pay all costs of the replacement too. On the subject of fuel tanks, I have noticed on Ferretti fuel tanks that there is a certificate stamped on them confirming that the tanks were inspected and pressure tested (can't remember what pressure!) before installation. Do Windy pressure test their tanks and would that test have shown up those incorrectly installed baffles? Actually I have to say that I don't understand how bad spot welds could have caused failure of the fuel tanks themselves

Anyway good story. Thanks spannerman

What happened was the round spot weld where the baffle was welded to the tank wall pulled through leaving a hole in the wall from the load on the baffles caused by fuel slosh, these holes allowed the tank to empty overnight.

 

[stelican]

Find it hard to understand why such a great depth of fuel was sloshing in the bilge and had not pumped out via bilge pump.
Then again I pointed out to the proud owner of similar boat at LBS a few years ago there was not a bilge pump in the stern of his lazzarette
Assume boat did have bilge pumps?

 

[petem]

Of course you are correct in principle.
But would you swear that no boat builder on earth would have at least tried to weld/repair the tanks somehow, hoping that they would last up to the the warranty expiration...? :ambivalence:

If the manufacturer of the fuel tanks was outsourced then surely they'd go after the supplier for new tanks and the cost of replacing them plus making good?

 

[MapisM]

If the manufacturer of the fuel tanks was outsourced then surely they'd go after the supplier for new tanks and the cost of replacing them plus making good?

I really don't think so, P.
No third party supplier in his right mind would refund the costs involved in such tricky removal/rebuild/re-installation of smaller tanks.
Sure, Windy could ask them to either supply a new tank properly built or refund the price originally paid.
But in this case, it sounds like this is only a tiny fraction of the costs Windy actually had to afford.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

What happened was the round spot weld where the baffle was welded to the tank wall pulled through leaving a hole in the wall from the load on the baffles caused by fuel slosh, these holes allowed the tank to empty overnight.

Thats a really bad fabrication error which should never have happened. Anyway at least they put it right. I'm slightly surprised that the new owner accepted the boat after the repair. It is almost impossible to mask the smell of a big diesel spillage in a boat

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I really don't think so, P.
No third party supplier in his right mind would refund the costs involved in such tricky removal/rebuild/re-installation of smaller tanks.

In contractual terms yes of course you're right but in practice it would depend how much the third party supplier wanted to keep their relationship with Windy. It would not surprise me if the supplier made a payment to Windy to keep their business. After all steel fabrication companies are ten a penny

 

[petem]

I really don't think so, P.
No third party supplier in his right mind would refund the costs involved in such tricky removal/rebuild/re-installation of smaller tanks.
Sure, Windy could ask them to either supply a new tank properly built or refund the price originally paid.
But in this case, it sounds like this is only a tiny fraction of the costs Windy actually had to afford.

Isn't that what product liability insurance is for? Could a supplier have a clause in a contract limiting their liability to the cost of the tank for example?

 

[MapisM]

In contractual terms yes of course you're right but in practice it would depend how much the third party supplier wanted to keep their relationship with Windy. It would not surprise me if the supplier made a payment to Windy to keep their business. After all steel fabrication companies are ten a penny

Good point, and it might well be that they accepted for instance to rebuild FoC the new split tanks.
But in the supplier boots, I would argue if Windy pretended it was my fault if tanks could be removed by design but not in practice, with all the manpower involved as a consequence...