Windows 10 is coming - but think twice before upgrading if you use it on a boat...

maby

Well-known member
Joined
12 Jun 2009
Messages
12,783
I was getting ready to upgrade - till I noticed the bit about mandatory automatic updates and thought through the implications. I use my laptop from the boat frequently - both for navigation and for work. My network connectivity comes through a 3g MiFi device which is on contract through Three. All these 3g contracts have some level of download cap applied - I get 10Gb per month, but many are less. A Windows update can easily be multiple gigabytes - and we can expect that the first few months of Windows 10 will result in some pretty big updates - I can't allow my laptop to make an arbitrary decision to download large files without reference to me - it could easily use up all my remaining download allowance and leave me unable to work.

During the Windows 10 beta testing phase, there were ways of disabling the automatic updates via registry hacks, but these apparently do not work with the production release - I'll be delaying updating my laptops until new patches are created, or Microsoft see sense and allow us to select when to apply updates.
 
Joined
20 Jun 2007
Messages
16,234
Location
Live in Kent, boat in Canary Islands
Last edited:

ghostlymoron

Well-known member
Joined
9 Apr 2005
Messages
9,889
Location
Shropshire
I'm not going to update although I don't use my laptop onboard. It's unlikely that the 10 version will do anything that I can't do on 8, take up more space and be full of glitches until they've been ironed out.
My desktop has Windows XP which still performs well and is easy to use. The poor old thing hasn't got enough memory for anything else.
 

ronsurf

Well-known member
Joined
17 Jan 2007
Messages
7,107
Location
Plymouth, D-heaven
I'm amazed that people still bother with Windows when there are far superior OSs available. I have to use Windows for work (we've just been recently upgraded to Windows 7!) but I'd never choose it for personal use.
 

BrianH

Active member
Joined
31 Jan 2008
Messages
4,683
Location
Switzerland
I was getting ready to upgrade - till I noticed the bit about mandatory automatic updates and thought through the implications. I use my laptop from the boat frequently - both for navigation and for work. My network connectivity comes through a 3g MiFi device which is on contract through Three. All these 3g contracts have some level of download cap applied - I get 10Gb per month, but many are less. A Windows update can easily be multiple gigabytes - and we can expect that the first few months of Windows 10 will result in some pretty big updates - I can't allow my laptop to make an arbitrary decision to download large files without reference to me - it could easily use up all my remaining download allowance and leave me unable to work.

During the Windows 10 beta testing phase, there were ways of disabling the automatic updates via registry hacks, but these apparently do not work with the production release - I'll be delaying updating my laptops until new patches are created, or Microsoft see sense and allow us to select when to apply updates.
I have exactly this problem on board in Italy (except I now have 4G). Even with 8.1 and setting no automatic updates because of my monthly download limit, I still had one. Perhaps M$ has a local settings override for important security updates but if so then that just too arrogant - no change there then.

Edit: Sorry, I have a Win 7 and a Win 8.1 on board - only the Win 7 machine has updates inhibited.
 
Last edited:

Norman_E

Well-known member
Joined
15 Mar 2005
Messages
24,511
Location
East Sussex.
I'm not going to update although I don't use my laptop onboard. It's unlikely that the 10 version will do anything that I can't do on 8, take up more space and be full of glitches until they've been ironed out.
My desktop has Windows XP which still performs well and is easy to use. The poor old thing hasn't got enough memory for anything else.

Actually Windows 10 looks to be less of a resource hog than earlier versions of Windows. XP or 7 probably take up more space and use more memory. I have 8.1 running on a micro PC with just 32GB of internal storage and 2GB of memory, and it is ready for Windows 10, though I will not install 10 unless there is a fix to allow me to choose when to download updates.
 

maby

Well-known member
Joined
12 Jun 2009
Messages
12,783
I was concerned about this, so asked in this excellent Windows 10 forum:
http://www.tenforums.com/windows-updates-activation/8700-compulsory-updates-3g-only-pc.html

Bottom line is that once Windows 10 is installed on a Windows 7 machine you have to option to mark your 3G connection as "metered", this will prevent updates from downloading. Windows 8 has this already.

See also
http://www.tenforums.com/windows-10...l-hide-block-unwanted-windows-10-updates.html

mmmm, the "Metered Connection" might work, though it needs further research - the Windows 8 FAQ says:

"How does setting my network connection to metered affect my PC?

Any app that relies on an Internet connection to update or display info might be limited in the amount of data it can download or display. You might notice these and other effects:

• Windows Update will only download priority updates.

• Apps downloading from the Windows Store might be paused.

•Start screen tiles might stop updating.

•Offline files might not sync automatically."

It will be interesting to see what the equivalent FAQ for W10 says - and get confirmation of what are "Priority Updates" - they can still be big.

I have wondered if I can block access to the update servers via the firewall - need to check how many there are and if the names or IP addresses are easily available.
 

nauticalnomad

Member
Joined
14 Mar 2010
Messages
719
Location
earth
If I install Windows 10 and it is on par with Windows 8.. I can de-install it though and re install Windows 7??

I have a laptop from Lenovo with Windows 8 on it and it is slower than previous laptops with Windows 7.
 

maby

Well-known member
Joined
12 Jun 2009
Messages
12,783
If I install Windows 10 and it is on par with Windows 8.. I can de-install it though and re install Windows 7??

I have a laptop from Lenovo with Windows 8 on it and it is slower than previous laptops with Windows 7.

I doubt there is a proper downgrade procedure - I would guess that you will have to be prepared to do a clean install of Windows 7 plus any applications and then reconfigure it all. Windows 8 is actually a very good platform underneath which was screwed up by a poor user interface. I have been looking forward to Windows 10, but can't install it of I cannot control its network usage. The "Metered Connection" option looks promising, but I'll need some clarification of the fine details - it seems to impact on the operation of various other aspects of Windows apart from updates - and also seems to let "Priority Updates" through.
 

KevB

Active member
Joined
4 Jul 2001
Messages
11,268
Location
Kent/Chichester
I'm amazed that people still bother with Windows when there are far superior OSs available.

Such as? and if you explain why. For home use and in most office applications Windows is far superior to any of the linux based os's particularly due to the vast amounts off apps available and it's seamless integration to almost anything.

I imagine one day Android may be a real contender but not for many years.

Mac's are just a fashion accessory.

I've played with the beta of Windows 10 and am looking forward to it's release.
 

maby

Well-known member
Joined
12 Jun 2009
Messages
12,783
Such as? and if you explain why. For home use and in most office applications Windows is far superior to any of the linux based os's particularly due to the vast amounts off apps available and it's seamless integration to almost anything.

I imagine one day Android may be a real contender but not for many years.

Mac's are just a fashion accessory.

I've played with the beta of Windows 10 and am looking forward to it's release.

I have to agree with you - Unix and the associated OSs like Linux and OSX are very well built deep down, but the user interfaces are crude and the range and quality of applications limited compared with Windows.
 

charles_reed

Active member
Joined
29 Jun 2001
Messages
10,413
Location
Home Shropshire 6/12; boat Greece 6/12
Such as? and if you explain why. For home use and in most office applications Windows is far superior to any of the linux based os's particularly due to the vast amounts off apps available and it's seamless integration to almost anything.

I imagine one day Android may be a real contender but not for many years.

Mac's are just a fashion accessory.

I've played with the beta of Windows 10 and am looking forward to it's release.

We can al;ways agree to disagree - since the demise of NT4, I've always dual booted into Suse Linux.

More stable, uses about 60% of the resources (power being the most important on a boat) and the only reason I have Win loaded is for graphics manipulation with Adobe.
 

prv

Well-known member
Joined
29 Nov 2009
Messages
37,363
Location
Southampton
I have to agree with you - Unix and the associated OSs like Linux and OSX are very well built deep down, but the user interfaces are crude and the range and quality of applications limited compared with Windows.

First time I've ever heard the OS X interface described as "crude"!

Pete
 

flyingscampi

New member
Joined
15 Oct 2007
Messages
562
Location
Medway
94aaa2106cc801301d50001dd8b71c47
 

ronsurf

Well-known member
Joined
17 Jan 2007
Messages
7,107
Location
Plymouth, D-heaven
Such as? and if you explain why. For home use and in most office applications Windows is far superior to any of the linux based os's particularly due to the vast amounts off apps available and it's seamless integration to almost anything.

I imagine one day Android may be a real contender but not for many years.

Mac's are just a fashion accessory.

I've played with the beta of Windows 10 and am looking forward to it's release.

I've used Macs for about 12 years now, and they always seem to be about 2 years ahead of Microsoft. Or maybe Microsoft are about 2 years behind Apple, would be a better way of putting it. Using Windows at work is so clunky and time consuming. I can start my mac and check my emails and close it down again in the time it takes for a windows machine to start up and sort itself out.

The joy of Apple's stuff is that you don't need to know about the computer. You push the button and it does what you want it to do. My MacBook Pro is half the thickness, a fraction of the weight and heaven knows how much faster than one of our works laptops. And the battery lasts for 8 hours, compared to just under one hour. Surely this indicates the OS is far more efficient? If that's a fashion accessory, then the fashion for light, fast, efficient and nice to use computers is one I completely endorse. As for the software (or apps as they are now called, a term coined by Apple), I found I need much less than a Windows machine. My works machine didn't even come with software to burn a DVD, ffs. Had to wait until Windows 7 for that! I had DVD burning software on my iBook back in 2003. Mac computers come with so many apps, there are only a few additional apps you need. Plus, they all work! I've never had to download a patch, or another app, or some mysterious bit of code to make any software work. Download it, install it, run it.

Recently I bought a cheap Hudl. This uses Android, and even that is a better experience than windows. As you say, it has a way to go before it's a force to be reckoned with, but the distance it's come compared to Microsoft is astonishing. Admittedly, it's mainly a copy of Apple, but so is Windows.

I hope Windows 10 is good too, I sincerely hope they've covered some ground and reduced the bloated feel of it to make it a pleasant experience.
 

maby

Well-known member
Joined
12 Jun 2009
Messages
12,783
I've used Macs for about 12 years now, and they always seem to be about 2 years ahead of Microsoft. Or maybe Microsoft are about 2 years behind Apple, would be a better way of putting it. Using Windows at work is so clunky and time consuming. I can start my mac and check my emails and close it down again in the time it takes for a windows machine to start up and sort itself out.

The joy of Apple's stuff is that you don't need to know about the computer. You push the button and it does what you want it to do. My MacBook Pro is half the thickness, a fraction of the weight and heaven knows how much faster than one of our works laptops. And the battery lasts for 8 hours, compared to just under one hour. Surely this indicates the OS is far more efficient? If that's a fashion accessory, then the fashion for light, fast, efficient and nice to use computers is one I completely endorse. As for the software (or apps as they are now called, a term coined by Apple), I found I need much less than a Windows machine. My works machine didn't even come with software to burn a DVD, ffs. Had to wait until Windows 7 for that! I had DVD burning software on my iBook back in 2003. Mac computers come with so many apps, there are only a few additional apps you need. Plus, they all work! I've never had to download a patch, or another app, or some mysterious bit of code to make any software work. Download it, install it, run it.

Recently I bought a cheap Hudl. This uses Android, and even that is a better experience than windows. As you say, it has a way to go before it's a force to be reckoned with, but the distance it's come compared to Microsoft is astonishing. Admittedly, it's mainly a copy of Apple, but so is Windows.

I hope Windows 10 is good too, I sincerely hope they've covered some ground and reduced the bloated feel of it to make it a pleasant experience.

I have a Mac, though it hasn't been switched on for at least two years. Much of what you say is true with the proviso that it is fine provided you only want to do what Apple intend you to do with it. If there is readily available software that meets your requirements, then great, but the range of software available is a lot less than on the PC. My son is a software developer and a Mac nut - but he spends most of his time running Windows in an emulation window on the Mac because that is where most of the market place is. I'm a salesman - I use PCs partly because that's what most of my customers use but primarily because there is nothing around that remotely touches MS Office as a productivity tool.

And this "It just works" slogan - it's not true. I will agree that there are fewer bugs in OSX than in Windows, but if you get hit by one of them, you may as well pack the machine up and forget it because Apple support is virtually non-existent. I'm sitting here working on a Windows laptop and looking at an Apple wireless access point sitting in the corner of the room. It's rock solid - never drops a connection - provided the client is a Windows PC. From a Mac Book, it's a rather different story - mine cannot hold a connection for more than half an hour - and when it drops, it is usually necessary to reboot the Mac to get it to reconnect. This is an old bug dating back years - the hardware is old now, but it happened from the day it was purchased. The Apple user forums were full of complaints about it - did it ever get fixed? The hell it did - Apple never even acknowledged it. When the complaint threads got too long, they simply deleted them.

There was also a long running bug related to the keyboard - the forums were full of threads with titles like "elp, my kybrd keps droping charctrs" - again, the bug was never acknowledged and the complaint threads simply got deleted. Microsoft are not perfect by any means, but they have been fixing bugs in Windows XP till very recently. Once Apple have your money, they forget you.
 

ronsurf

Well-known member
Joined
17 Jan 2007
Messages
7,107
Location
Plymouth, D-heaven
I have to agree with you that if any apps fail you can be in a very dark place. I've usually found a solution, but not from Apple. I've not experienced any of the problems you mention, though.
 

nauticalnomad

Member
Joined
14 Mar 2010
Messages
719
Location
earth
I doubt there is a proper downgrade procedure - I would guess that you will have to be prepared to do a clean install of Windows 7 plus any applications and then reconfigure it all. Windows 8 is actually a very good platform underneath which was screwed up by a poor user interface. I have been looking forward to Windows 10, but can't install it of I cannot control its network usage. The "Metered Connection" option looks promising, but I'll need some clarification of the fine details - it seems to impact on the operation of various other aspects of Windows apart from updates - and also seems to let "Priority Updates" through.

I just don't like the constant updating.. Its like every 3rd time I log on it says to me via a pop up that it needs to restart in 15 minutes to update itself...
Windows 7 never did this. It just kept working for me...
 
Top