Windlass ripped from hull

[RichardS]

more info needed before we start suggestion the charter company at fault.
coinciding most charter boat are within four years old the windlass would had been fitted at the factory ,
and they would had fitted many hundred if not thousands , that not to say a shoddy repairs hasn't been done since fitted very rarely read of windlass just falling off .
but I have seen one windlass plus cleats ripped out when a power boat roared off at speed still attract to another boat anchor chain .
I no fan of charter company they get away with murder but I also seen the way charters miss use boats so it could easily be the fault of another charter who missed used it , but who to say and how do the OP prove it ?
its no different then when a charter return and a dive goes down and says the keel damage .
personally I think the OP now has a problem on his hands , he could ask for a report by a independent surveyor but that would cost him more then the repair .

I think you're right Vic.

I've seen many boats being dragged towards the anchor and I always cringe. We were watching a charter boat a couple of years ago, although he was on the other side of the bay, and his anchor was obviously jammed on the seabed. He was clearly operating the windlass to try and break it free such that the bow of his boat was being pulled down toward the sea level. Suddenly, just as darkness fell, there was an enormous bang like a gun shot and the boat sprang upwards.

It was either the chain breaking, the windlass internals breaking or the windlass snapping out of the deck. Maybe there are other candidates but I can't think of any as I'm assuming that the bang was not from under the water. :ambivalence:

After that he turned and motored away, presumably heading for a marina as I guess his anchoring days were over.

Only the OP knows whether he might have succumbed to such dubious practices.

Richard

 

[Skylark]

.......I suspect that the OP had a boat where the windlass mounting was already weakened and waiting to fail.........

I agree with this scenario. I feel sorry for the OP but I don’t think he would be successful in challenging the charter company.

From their perspective, the boat went out with a windlass, there was a hand-over process (presumably) and it was returned damaged. They will not have time for argument, they’ll get it repaired as quickly as possible and returned to the fleet, especially in high season. Doubles they’ll pass the costs to his insurance policy, that’s why it’s recommended to buy it.

Time to move on. Don’t let it spoil the pleasure of the holiday. Use a different Charterer next time.

 

[sailaboutvic]

I agree with this scenario. I feel sorry for the OP but I don’t think he would be successful in challenging the charter company.

From their perspective, the boat went out with a windlass, there was a hand-over process (presumably) and it was returned damaged. They will not have time for argument, they’ll get it repaired as quickly as possible and returned to the fleet, especially in high season. Doubles they’ll pass the costs to his insurance policy, that’s why it’s recommended to buy it.

Time to move on. Don’t let it spoil the pleasure of the holiday. Use a different Charterer next time.

I don't think if the same thing happened again with a different charter company that the out come wouldn't be the same .
The boat when out with an workable windlass and return with a broken one .

 

[Norman_E]

To return to my point about a snubber I would expect a charter boat to be supplied with a chain hook and rope and an instruction to use it when anchored. Am I expecting too much of charter companies? I bought my boat from a charter company and it had one, though I subsequently replaced the hook as I did not like the type because it was hard to unhook.

 

[sailaboutvic]

To return to my point about a snubber I would expect a charter boat to be supplied with a chain hook and rope and an instruction to use it when anchored. Am I expecting too much of charter companies? I bought my boat from a charter company and it had one, though I subsequently replaced the hook as I did not like the type because it was hard to unhook.

Norman to be honest, in all the time we cruisered Greece and Croatia I have never seen a charter using one .
If they are supplied I guess the charters have no idea what they are .

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Got my anchor stuck in a fissure in rock a few years ago ... there was no way it was going to break out. The windlass ground to a halt and the bow sunk a good few inches before the anchor operator stopped pressing the 'up' button. Nothing broke off or ripped out (Bav 36 from 1999 so typical AWB) .... had to dive to recover the anchor.

They are very powerful things but should not be able to rip themselves out before a trip or clutch slip - especially on a charter boat as they really need to be idiot proof - and a corroded or faulty contact jamming the thing on shouldn't cause serious damage to the boat.

 

[MAURICE]

I would think the main cause is that of production boats. The type used by such companies are built to a price and everything is screwed down not bolted. The windlass was not installed in a decent mannar as the breaker should easily have stopped such an incident.

 

[Graham376]

Mate of mine stripped the rear bolts out of his windlass (not the platform) and bent the front ones through almost 90 degrees during a very snatchy night in Cemaes Bay. Had never heard of a snubber, always left the chain wrapped around the windlass. Fortunately, enough meat in the casting to drill oversize and re-tap.

 

[penberth3]

Indeed so Rupert. I would expect that in all cases the failure point will be the sub-structure that the windlass is bolted to rather than the windlass or the bolts.

Richard

I'd expect the opposite. Surely it should be designed to trip-out on overload or for the bolts to fail BEFORE any structural damage to the boat?

 

[Dave100456]

+1 to those who have already said it

Keep your position and arguments simple:

Provided the windlass clutch and/or electrical overload breaker were fitted and maintained correctly it should not be possible to pull the windlass out of its mounting.

 

[smithadr]

+1 to those who have already said it

Keep your position and arguments simple:

Provided the windlass clutch and/or electrical overload breaker were fitted and maintained correctly it should not be possible to pull the windlass out of its mounting.

Yes, i totally agree and that's how i'm going to approach it. Some of the responses to my original post have elaborated a bit but this, in my view, is what my argument boils down to. All replies have been helpful and i've learned a lot so thanks again everyone.

 

[RichardS]

Yes, i totally agree and that's how i'm going to approach it. Some of the responses to my original post have elaborated a bit but this, in my view, is what my argument boils down to. All replies have been helpful and i've learned a lot so thanks again everyone.

Unfortunately, I doubt that you will be successful. The clutch issue is a red-herring as it will be fitted and, if done up tight, is not going to slip and act as a safety release. The windlass will also be fitted with an overload breaker and these are non-maintenance items. If it didn't trip, it didn't trip.

You can try and argue that because the overload did not trip, and that is linked to the current draw of the windlass motor, the design of the windlass mounting is clearly too weak for that size of motor. However, the charter company will probably say that they have many identical boats and none of those have failed and that the design of the windlass mounting is outside their jurisdiction anyway.

Richard

 

[sailaboutvic]

I think most of the answers here have come from people experience on their own boat and not see how charters Miss used not only the windlass but almost every other bit of equipment on board .
I say again that not to say the OP have done anything to damaged to the windlass .
I agree with Richard he probably not going to get any joy , best he can do is argue the amount and hope to bring it down .

Any way good lucky hope it all turn out fine .

 

[jiris]

I believe every anchoring system should be designed with the almost certainity of a gross abuse at some point in mind - either by a sheer stupidity of the operator or by a set of circumstances beyond skipper's control. In such a case something would break - nothing you can do about it. But the part breaking should be the always the cheapest and easiest to replace one and that is definitely not the the windlass gear or its mounts. Such a part could be incorporated in the windlass (sheer-pin on gypsy, for instance) or the rode should become the week link. Windlass ripped of the deck, no matter by what kind of abuse is plainly wrong.