Wind Speed

[Ex-SolentBoy]

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The Beaufort scale isn't threatening anyone is it? I like it because it describes sea state as well as wind speed. (In fact that was its primary purpose when it was invented).

Are the people who want to get rid of it the same people who don't want those messy iosbars on their weather map?

- W

Pardon the expression, but bollo**s. Instruments, the met office and all websites simply convert wind speed to Beaufort irrespective of the sea state.

I would hsppily sail in a F8 in the Solent, but not in the Atlantic.

If the quoting of Beaufort really considered sea state that would be a good thing, but in the modern world it doesn't.

 

[pagoda]

Pardon the expression, but bollo**s. Instruments, the met office and all websites simply convert wind speed to Beaufort irrespective of the sea state.

I would hsppily sail in a F8 in the Solent, but not in the Atlantic.

If the quoting of Beaufort really considered sea state that would be a good thing, but in the modern world it doesn't.

Fully agree on the shelter compnent WRT beaufort. The difference between inside Kintyre & outside (at least south of the lee of Islay) in even a F5 is considerable. Let's think again different, but often nominally served up as the same weather.... It all boils down to how much exposure there is, for how long.

Graeme

 

[Mark-1]

Pardon the expression, but bollo**s. Instruments, the met office and all websites simply convert wind speed to Beaufort irrespective of the sea state.

I would hsppily sail in a F8 in the Solent, but not in the Atlantic.

If the quoting of Beaufort really considered sea state that would be a good thing, but in the modern world it doesn't.

Yeah, sea state and wind strength are two completely different things and to mix them in one measurement is a needless over simplification left over from the days when the only way to work out wind strength was by deducing it from a visual check of the sea state.

 

[Seajet]

Why do most sailors still refer to the Beaufort scale when describing wind forces? Just about every sailor and his dog has a wind instrument so why not refer to the actual wind speed?

Cheers, Brian.

Was the OP.

Some of us can go by the feel of the boat in the conditions, without having to be told by some numbers on a bit of kit which is of dubious accuracy anyway unless it's been calibrated on the boat in a variety of tests, rather unlikely.

So in reality these instruments are a guideline to refer to, just as the Beaufort scale is, it's just that they refer to the particular boat.

The bands of the Beaufort scale, as they convey an impression rather than digits which will vary boat to boat, are a lot more reliable & consistent as a guide.

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

The bands of the Beaufort scale, as they convey an impression rather than digits which will vary boat to boat, are a lot more reliable & consistent as a guide.

Sorry,, but bolloc** again.

The bands are just that. They are ranges of wind speeds, nothing more, nothing less.

Like all generalisations they are correct if the sample is large, but useless in a small sample.

We cling on to them for sentimental reasons only.

If you really want bands, make them form zero to ten, ten to twenty etc. at least new sailors could learn them. Do you really think the youngsters of today want to learn Beaufort, when all the websites are in knots or mph?

Aviation has this right. They say 20 gusting 35 knots. Or whatever. Much easier to understand. There are many sailors who are appy at the bottom end of one Beaufort, but scared rigid at the top end.

Scales may have had some use when the only forecast was a scratchy radio transmission, but those times are long gone.


PS also nothing to do with boat to boat. Wind instruments are not calibrated locally.

 

[macd]

Aviation has this right. They say 20 gusting 35 knots. Or whatever.

I agree completely (and some versions of grib file will give mean wind speed and gust strength, which is valuable on any small vessel).

My main gripe about sea state forecasts is that they're entirely governed by wave height. Yet on a small boat I don't care if the waves are 1m or 3m: steepness (i.e. wavelength) is what concerns me. There's no indication of that.

The Portuguese Met Office, at least, has some idea: it routinely gives predictions of local wave heights and swell height as distinct figures (partly because so many of their harbours are dangerous to enter in a big swell). That's useful.

 

[Resolution]

Sorry,, but bolloc** again.

The bands are just that. They are ranges of wind speeds, nothing more, nothing less.

Like all generalisations they are correct if the sample is large, but useless in a small sample.

We cling on to them for sentimental reasons only.

If you really want bands, make them form zero to ten, ten to twenty etc. at least new sailors could learn them. Do you really think the youngsters of today want to learn Beaufort, when all the websites are in knots or mph?

Aviation has this right. They say 20 gusting 35 knots. Or whatever. Much easier to understand. There are many sailors who are appy at the bottom end of one Beaufort, but scared rigid at the top end.

Scales may have had some use when the only forecast was a scratchy radio transmission, but those times are long gone.


PS also nothing to do with boat to boat. Wind instruments are not calibrated locally.

+1

 

[prv]

In my opinion weather sources that quote knots only (windguru) are not unduly confusing.

Involves too much thinking for my tiny brian, so I have Windguru configured to show Beaufort instead.

Pete

 

[snowleopard]

For some of us, wind instruments aren't an option, e.g. my rotating mast. Like many of my generation I learned to judge wind speed and direction by looking at the sea. I notice that all too many who have come to sailing straight into 30+ footers with all the electronics can't do that. In practice I find that my estimates are pretty accurate but sometimes a little on the low side when I have a mate with an instrument nearby.

The question of which scale to use - Beaufort, Kts, MPH, KPH, M/sec or even Ft/sec is a matter of personal choice. This side of the Atlantic Beaufort seems a logical choice as it is the language of shipping & inshore forecasts. On the other side I soon got used to working in knots.

 

[Seajet]

Solent Boy,

I am used to aviation too, a totally different ball game.

In a perfect world you might learn to say something like ' I disagree because...' instead of automatically degenerating to 'b*****s' , the former tends to get better results & standard of discussion; especially when you are the one talking sphericals.

You are welcome to your opinion, just don't expect your situation to apply - or have any appeal - to everyone.

 

[Conachair]

Why do most sailors still refer to the Beaufort scale when describing wind forces? Just about every sailor and his dog has a wind instrument so why not refer to the actual wind speed?

Cheers, Brian.

Most sailors don't. Once out of the UK cruising sailors tend to talk about Kts. if they bother talking about wind speed at all.

 

[Mark-1]

Involves too much thinking for my tiny brian, so I have Windguru configured to show Beaufort instead.

Pete

You turned down the granularity. of a forecast. Fine, whatever works for you.

 

[Simondjuk]

Frankly, anyone who cannot immediately convert knots to Beaufort and Beaufort to knots from memory, is a little bit dim.

 

[Mark-1]

Frankly, anyone who cannot immediately convert knots to Beaufort and Beaufort to knots from memory, is a little bit dim.

In which case the best measure to use is the one with superior granularity. Not that a cruising sailor really needs that granularity.

 

[Mark-1]

In which case the best measure to use is the one with superior granularity. Not that a cruising sailor really needs that granularity.

On this topic what is the benefit today using terms like LATER which is an offset from issue time. Surely a rough eta would be far simpler.

 

[DJE]

Much easier to undestand beaufort when struggling to receive and translate a weather forecast in French.

 

[Mark-1]

Much easier to undestand beaufort when struggling to receive and translate a weather forecast in French.

Compelling point, so I've changed my mind. Beaufort is far simpler in a foreign language which probably trumps all the other issues.12 numbers to learn instead of 60 odd.

Also answers my 'Later' question.

 

[franksingleton]

Why do most sailors still refer to the Beaufort scale when describing wind forces? Just about every sailor and his dog has a wind instrument so why not refer to the actual wind speed?

Cheers, Brian.

I have not read all the comments. However, here is my take in terms of forecasts:-

First, the Beaufort scale is economic in terms of number of words in a forecast. Important both in BBC shipping forecast terms and for NAVTEX. In English, every number from 1 to 12 is single syllable apart from seven and eleven. In French they are all single syllable.

Secondly, using knots or metres per second leads to an unjustified impression of accuracy. I have heard forecasts talk about 5 to 15 knots becoming 6 to 16! Really?

Thirdly, a single number is more likely to be heard clearly in poor reception conditions than a two f

Fourth, it may be psychological but it is somehow easier to relate a force to sailing conditions. See http://weather.mailasail.com/Franks...temporay-Versions-Of-Beaufort-Scales#cruising.

In summary, single figure number combine realism, practicality, clarity in the provision of forecasts.

As a sailor, I am accustomed to looking at the sea state and relating that to a force rather than to a range of speeds. The sea state is a good mesure of the average wind. A Beaufort force, as others have said is a description of a range of wind speeds and takes into account the fact that there is no such thing as a steady wind of N knots. One of my more pithy sayings is that the atmosphere does not know itself to within one Beaufort force.

 

[clyst]

The beaufort scale has an advantage, it takes out pressure effects, wind speed does not have the same force when there is low pressues

Also wind speed measured by instruments only measures apparent wind speed .

 

[Sybarite]

Why do most sailors still refer to the Beaufort scale when describing wind forces? Just about every sailor and his dog has a wind instrument so why not refer to the actual wind speed?

Cheers, Brian.

Even though I have lived for a long time in France, I could never conjure up sea distances in km. Well I suppose I could by multiplying by 1.852.