Wind gen's & Marina Etiquette

Re: Wind gen\'s & Marina Etiquette

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The received wisdom on tethering wind gens is that it is bad for their bearings.


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Cant see any engineering reason why this should be so, and good reason why the bearings should wear more when being used. Not that wear on bearing should even be considered if you are irritating a neighbour with the noise. Consideration for others is what counts

Mind you stand by for the neighbour to complain you are irritating him and his asthma with your dog - not to mention the dog pee and poo on the pontoons. If I were the neighbour I'd offer a deal. Tie up my genny if you leave the dog at home.

And I like dogs, always have
 
Re: Wind gen\'s & Marina Etiquette

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The received wisdom on tethering wind gens is that it is bad for their bearings.


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Cant see any engineering reason why this should be so, and good reason why the bearings should wear more when being used. ....

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Phenomenon known as "brinelling" where ball bearings will hammer little dents in their races if left stationary in a vibrating position. This is not "wear" as such, but damage which will reduce the working life of the bearing and eventually destroy it when it IS running.
This vibration could be caused by anything - a fluttering blade, a resonating mounting pole or shroud etc. But its a real, genuine possibility.
 
Re: Wind gen\'s & Marina Etiquette

The explanation that I have heard is that when it is tied it tends to oscillate fractionaly and thus causes flat spots on the bearings which do not rotate evenly. Possible yes but doubtful.

As to etiquette I see no reason for running a high powered and potentially noisey generator of any type in a marina and a polite word should resolve the question and if its overhanging that much and is a serious obstuction the marina should do something about it. I have an Air X which I inadvertently left on once and on return found it tied up, I was mortified as there were a few live aboards about and completely understood why they should have tied it up, never did find out who it was though so if whoever ut was is reading this please accept my apologies now.
 
Re: Wind gen\'s & Marina Etiquette

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Yes, he also has two 'picnic table' size solar panels and is always plugged into the shore power... Its like being berthed next to Sellafield!

Mark

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Well that sounds like an education problem, nobody needs that level of input, agree a personal word would be the best approach but if he is absent then it is a marina problem. You always have the choice of asking them to find you an alternative berth if it cant be sorted.
 
Re: Wind gen\'s & Marina Etiquette

I have been running ours all day, esp in the recent big winds, and switching off at night or if the neighbours are on deck.

It is about 10ft off the deck and doesnt intrude on the neighbours 'personal space', and our dog doesn't bat an eyelid about it.
 
Re: Wind gen\'s & Marina Etiquette

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Phenomenon known as "brinelling" where ball bearings will hammer little dents in their races if left stationary in a vibrating position. This is not "wear" as such, but damage which will reduce the working life of the bearing and eventually destroy it when it IS running.
This vibration could be caused by anything - a fluttering blade, a resonating mounting pole or shroud etc. But its a real, genuine possibility.

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Interesting idea but I cant see the load from vibrating blades remotely reaching the point where it could cause damage to 1% carbon chrome bearings. Must admit I hadnt thought of that one though.

Bearings are "as cheap as chips" so its still no reason not to stop the thing rotating
 
Re: Wind gen\'s & Marina Etiquette

i run my boat on the wind generator,but not in the marina for this very reson, explain the resons fully first,if no joy try marina office ie "health and safety reasons"
 
Re: Wind gen\'s & Marina Etiquette

>> ...... Interesting idea but I cant see the load from vibrating blades remotely reaching the point where it could cause damage to 1% carbon chrome bearings. Must admit I hadnt thought of that one though.

Bearings are "as cheap as chips" so its still no reason not to stop the thing rotating <<<<

I agree. I've never understood the 'don't tie it off' theory.

I accept that very long-term tying off 'might' cause a flat spot, IF the 'fan' could still rotate a little, but I still feel even that would be highly unlikely.

We tie ours off, but NOT to one point (e.g. a single tie round the supporting pole since this allows the 'fan' to rotate from side to side to the limit of the tie) but to two points out on the rails - one from a loop round two opposite blades and a second from the tail shaft. The genny is therefore prevented from rotatiing at all either vertically or horizontally.

Sounds fussy, but takes a few seconds in reality, and our 10 year old 913, used for years while full time cruising, is still perfect.
 
Re: Wind gen\'s & Marina Etiquette

It's not an "idea", its a fact.
It affects even (for example) industrial size compressors with high quality bearings sitting in storage in a warehouse with nothing more severe than the occasional train going by hundreds of yards away. We have to rotate them by hand regularly.
It WILL affect a little wind gen. Can you imagine the repeated point pressures brought to bear on the same points on the races?
The name comes from the Brinell hardness test that is the standard for measuring hardness in metals.
Are you suggesting he should repeatedly replace his bearings?
 
Re: Wind gen\'s & Marina Etiquette

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I accept that very long-term tying off 'might' cause a flat spot, IF the 'fan' could still rotate a little, but I still feel even that would be highly unlikely.


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The point is that it happens WHEN rotation is locked so that the ball rests in one place on the race.
And there is no "might" about it.
 
Re: Wind gen\'s - Is it young Mr Calder perchance?

'Yes, he also has two 'picnic table' size solar panels and is always plugged into the shore power... Its like being berthed next to Sellafield! '

Ah - so the whereabouts of Nigel Calder's latest yacht has been found. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Re: Wind gen\'s & Marina Etiquette

How do all those cyclists, motor bikers and motorists manage parking their vehicles in the station car park (sometimes on the platform) every day ?
 
Re: Wind gen\'s & Marina Etiquette

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I accept that very long-term tying off 'might' cause a flat spot, IF the 'fan' could still rotate a little, but I still feel even that would be highly unlikely.


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The point is that it happens WHEN rotation is locked so that the ball rests in one place on the race.
And there is no "might" about it.

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Yes, that may well be the case, but over what period are we talking? For example, the compressors you mentioned, how often is 'regularly'?

I suspect with the vast majority of boat based windgens, the tying off is overnight or perhaps for a week or two. Under those circumstances I still doubt that flat spots would occur.
 
Re: Wind gen\'s & Marina Etiquette

It appears that your neighbour is fairly ignorant about his power supply needs - being plugged in to 240v as well as drawing wind and solar power when the boat is left locked in the marina! But having proudly fitted all the kit, he'll want to be using it 24/7 and so there's a good chance he might object to any completely reasonable request you make.

If you tie up his wind-generator next time you're down at the boat, chances are he'll rock up the next morning and suss out that its you and might not be very happy about it.

You might speak to the marina management - they could have a policy on the problem but don't yet know about this guy, or they could have some nuisance clause in the legal agreement (have you read your own?) which they might be happy to invoke on your behalf. Another alternative is to request a different berth.

Having said all that, I've before clambered out of my bunk and brazenly boarded locked-up yachts in the dead of night in some marina or other with an old sail-tie in hand to frap some incessantly slapping halyard!
 
Re: Wind gen\'s & Marina Etiquette

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Bunch of chicken guts and feathers, splattered all over his cockpit.

"You wouldn't believe it, saw a seagull fly right into you new wind generator. Didn't make too much of a mess did it?"

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Re: Wind gen\'s & Marina Etiquette

Too many variables to contemplate.
Is there any vibration in the first place?
What amplitude?
What frequency/accelleration?
What is quality/hardness of metal?
How old is it? (older metal has work hardened, new bearings MAY be more suceptible to brinelling)
What is design L10 life of the bearings?

I could go on... suffice it to say I wouln't tie a wind genny up (if I owned one) I'd take it off its mountings when not in use, so that its bearings were not subject to random resonant systems.
 
Re: Wind gen\'s & Marina Etiquette

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I could go on... suffice it to say I wouln't tie a wind genny up (if I owned one) I'd take it off its mountings when not in use

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Re: Wind gen\'s & Marina Etiquette

The correct way to slow the generator down and reduce noise whilst taking care of the bearings is to install a single pole double throw switch on the output. When this is thrown it will short the generator makinng it resist turning by the induced current created. The more the wind blows, the more current created and the greater the braking effect.

http://www.oksolar.com/wind/wind-generators-qa.htm

"Will it not short my batteries when I use a stop switch?"
When a single pole, double throw switch that is rated for proper current and voltage is connected as shown in the manual, the turbine positive is disconnected from the batteries BEFORE being connected to negative. It is important that your stop switch be of the type that opens the circuit between positions. This is commonly referred to as a “break-before-make” switch. Be sure to install a fuse in any case.
 
Re: Wind gen\'s & Marina Etiquette

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If you tie up his wind-generator next time you're down at the boat, chances are he'll rock up the next morning and suss out that its you and might not be very happy about it.


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Especially if you use the shore-power cable to tie it off with /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I have tied off a wind gen in the past, but that was partly because the bearings were knackered and it could be heard across the whole marina. The owner didn't mind at all, but that may have been because he didn't seem to care about his boat anyway /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I suggest you talk to the marina management first before securing the blades. Explain what your issues are - you may find they do the job for you, and will certainly be able to contact the owner. (There is bound to be a contract clause about not causing a nuisance/hazard etc)
 
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