Wind Generator?

[Tim Good]

Ok so I'm considering power for long term liveaboard cruising which is what we'll be next year. I have a 100w panel on the back and reduced consumptuon as much as possible with keel cooled fridge leds all round, hydrovane etc. I'm now trying to figure out the priority for the next thing.

1. I've never used a wind Gen before but are they worth it or should i consider maxing my solar first?

2. If I do go for a windgen then is it simply a case of bolting it on and running a cable to the batteries via a regulator?

3. Lastly any specific models which are especially good for money? Superwind?

 

[Mistroma]

Absolutely max out solar before considering wind generator. However, solar output will drop massively outside summer months just when wind likely to increase.

My experience with Rutland 913 is that I averaged about 10Ah/day each summer in UK and en-route to Portugal. It's pretty easy to get a good idea of likely daily production during each month if you state your cruising area.

What are your plans for winter? Afloat in a marina? If so then neighbours might not like wind-gen (some models are noisy) and you'd probably have shorepower anyway.

It doesn't matter which make of wind gen you choose. Performance and value for money will change but will always cost many times more than cost of buying solar with equivalent annual output.

 

[Tim Good]

What are your plans for winter? Afloat in a marina?

Bristol > Scotland > Norway > who knows.

Will try and avoid marinas whenever possible so anchoring will be the norm.

 

[macd]

Northcave: it depends in large measure where in the world you're going to put your wind generator. The Med generally favours a very heavy bias to solar, as Mistroma suggested. Equally the principle function of half the wind gens you see in the Med seems to be to keep the solar panels cool by casting a thumping great shadow :ambivalence:

Incidentally your 100W doesn't sound enough to run a fridge, laptop, etc. If the Med's your destination, another 100W of solar would be preferred. (We have 340W which is fine most of the time, but in late season we can struggle and several consecutive cloudy days is never good news. For this consider increasing your domestic bank, if possible. Remember that the sun's height and duration on 1 November is about the same as on 10 February, i.e. not a lot. Again, as Mistroma wrote, wintering on the hook places cosiderable extra demands.

Wind comes into its own almost anywhere in the trade winds, largely because winds are pretty dependable, blow 24/7, and daylight duration hours in the main season (in the Carib) are at their lowest. But even there a substantial solar contribution is desirable.

Wind gens are often least efficient under way. In following winds the reason why is obvious; when heeled/beating they can flop around rather than holding true to the wind. I found that a larger, slightly heavier vane helped, but this will no doubt vary from model to model.

As to installation, yes you bolt them on, but not necessarily simply. Some regulators can deal with a combined solar/wind input, some are wind-specific. Cabling usually needs to be quite hefty: a generator that might typically offer 3-5A could peak at over 20A.

P.S. Just seen your post regarding location (which, silly me, includes nowhere I mentioned :encouragement. Yes, I'd be inclined to add a wind gen, especially if you winter on the hook (god help you). But I'd still bung on extra panels if you can find room. No reason some of them couldn't live below while under way and be plugged in when you're parked. Even if you do 10,000 miles per year, which very few people do, you'll spend most of your time stationary.
And to echo another of Mistroma's points: solar kW tend to be cheaper than wind, and increasingly so. Except in Manchester, of course

 

[Mistroma]

Bristol > Scotland > Norway > who knows.

Will try and avoid marinas whenever possible so anchoring will be the norm.

I think that heating and damp will be a much bigger priority if wintering at anchor in Scotland and Norway. I hope that you have that sorted out already.

I'll check the figures below later but think they should give a good indication of average output from a 100W panel (flat on deck and unshaded). I took points in middle of West coast of Scotland and Norway.

Average Daily Ah
_____Scotland___Norway
Jan____2.2_______0.8
Feb____5.8______3.5
Mar___14.3______9.5
Apr___24.0_____18.2
May___30.6_____24.6
Jun___31.3_____28.7
Jul____27.7_____24.5
Aug__22.4_____18.0
Sep__14.5_____10.9
Oct___7.7_______4.4
Nov__2.9_______1.3
Dec__1.5_______0.4

I'd guess that 100W will only provide around 25%-50% of your likely daily midsummer usage.
My Rutland 913 figures come out at around 10%-15% during the summer months (most days virtually nothing and a glut on a few days).

 

[geem]

From my experience you need a lot more solar and probably a wind generator as well. We have a similar sizes yacht and we have 460w of solar and a Duogen. We don't have a problem with charging the batteries in the Caribbean but we increased solar to the point that we had enough. Wind power for us is fractional compared to solar output. Trades may blow but when you are anchored in a nice sheltered spot the wind generator isn't so useful. We have led lights everywhere and an energy efficient fridge. The solar and towed generator will run the boat when on passage with electronics on and autopilot. We arrive at out destination usually with charged batteries.

 

[Sandyman]

I've recently removed my wind genny. Even on an overcast day my solar output supplies more power than needed making the wind genny more or less redundant.
What would be worth looking at is your storage capacity.

 

[Tim Good]

Storage comes up a lot.

What sort of storage should I be looking at? Currently my house bank is 3 x large batteries. I forgot the exact amps. Maybe 3 x 115. I have separate ones for now and engine.

I do have a genset which once per week I intend to fire up and fill the tanks in the water maker. The by product will be topping up all batteries of course but I want to move away from genset reliance.

 

[ribrage]

Ok so I'm considering power for long term liveaboard cruising which is what we'll be next year. I have a 100w panel on the back and reduced consumptuon as much as possible with keel cooled fridge leds all round, hydrovane etc. I'm now trying to figure out the priority for the next thing.

1. I've never used a wind Gen before but are they worth it or should i consider maxing my solar first?

2. If I do go for a windgen then is it simply a case of bolting it on and running a cable to the batteries via a regulator?

3. Lastly any specific models which are especially good for money? Superwind?

I have had a Rutland up the mizzen untouched for the past 15 years, whilst in the North Atlantic it worked hard and was my sole means of power, now we are in the med its not working at all in the sun as the solar panels take over - but winter time the solar panels provide very little power and the wind generator will continue to put a charge into the system even in a light breeze.

I would happily buy another Rutland or rebuild this one when it dies - My advise if you are going off the grid and staying out of marinas (easier said than done) is to have TOO MANY Solar panels AND a wind generator..................you'll never be saying "oh dear wish I had one less"

 

[ribrage]

Storage comes up a lot.

What sort of storage should I be looking at? Currently my house bank is 3 x large batteries. I forgot the exact amps. Maybe 3 x 115. I have separate ones for now and engine.

I do have a genset which once per week I intend to fire up and fill the tanks in the water maker. The by product will be topping up all batteries of course but I want to move away from genset reliance.

we have a split system 12 and 24 volt all independent of each other but if need be interconnect able, 6 x 110 amp wet batteries from Carrefour , disposable , replaceable any where in the world and cheap , wind gen and solar keeps that topped up to max maybe 95 % of the time , rarely we run our generator , but we don't have water maker.

 

[Sandyman]

Assuming you're like most liveaboards around the 12M mark then I would suggest you look at around 440 to 500 Ah for domestic batts.
Of all the liveaboards I have come across who have had power supply problems it usually comes down to a lack of storage capacity.

 

[geem]

Assuming you're like most liveaboards around the 12M mark then I would suggest you look at around 440 to 500 Ah for domestic batts.
Of all the liveaboards I have come across who have had power supply problems it usually comes down to a lack of storage capacity.

We have 800 ah domestic as live aboards. 460w solar. Generator running watermaker. The generator has a small mains charger but we don't run the generator for battery charging. Solar is king. Even if wind genny is flat out its peak is less than our solar bank on a sunny day. By the time the wind genny is making useful amps it's too noisy and I can hear it in back cabin if I am trying to sleep. We tend to tie it up at night. I wouldn't replace it if it broke

 

[LadyInBed]

A couple of points, solar doesn't work at night, WG's don't work too well running downwind.
The 914 is a big improvement over the 913, I'm not up to date on other makes.
From what I've heard, the wind come towing water gens give even more flexibility, especially downwind, if you can afford it.
Put up as much solar as you can because it is much cheaper these days, and you can isolate one out if it fails.

 

[cowpat]

I have a Rutland FM1803-2 that I would like to sell. It has only had two months use and is like new. Full control gear with it. PM me if you are interested. Chris.

 

[KellysEye]

We had a wind generator and were happy with it. The only downside it that on a downwind passage, such as an Atlantic crossing, it doesn't work just spins around. It wasn't a problem because we had a generator for a 240 volt fridge and 240 volt water maker so we could charge the batteries at same time. The reason we had 240 volt is because they are industrial grade kit and are very unlikely to break. All 12v boat kit, other than electronics, will break more than once if long distance sailing it's designed for weekend and holiday sailors. We carried two spares for everything, appropiate tools and exploded diagrams.

 

[Mistroma]

I have a Rutland FM1803-2 that I would like to sell. It has only had two months use and is like new. Full control gear with it. PM me if you are interested. Chris.

Wow, looks as if this has a diameter of 1.8m. OP will need a serious pole to mount it well clear of the deck.

If it is 1.8m diameter then I'd expect it to average around 40Ah/day when spending a summer at anchor in Scotland. Even if that model is 25% more efficient than the 913 it would only come out at around 50Ah/day. That's around the output he'd expect from 200W solar between April-Sept. in his initial cruising area.

It should certainly outperform 200W solar outside the above months. Everyone seems to agree that he should max. out solar first (I imagine most would suggest rigid panels if possible). Then fit a wind gen with spare cash when no space left for solar.

 

[charles_reed]

As already suggested the area you'll be sailing is the critical question. For anything but high latitudes wind cannot compete in cost terms with solar.
I'd suggest that, before considering fitting any wind generation you need to mount all available area of solar panel - for liveboards a nominal 500 watts is the minimum you should consider with a similar value in wind generation. The two latter wind generators will make you pretty unpopular with near neighbours.
Having used both, wind costs about x5 in capital expenditure as a similar value of solar, but you really need a balance in both if you intend to be truly independent.

 

[Tim Good]

Looks like I need to get on the solar then and figure out what I need in terms of regulator, parallel or series wiring.

Is it a myth than panellals rigged in parallel need to be the same output roughly? Or can they be totally different, providing the regulator can take it?

 

[macd]

...for liveboards a nominal 500 watts is the minimum you should consider with a similar value in wind generation....wind generators will make you pretty unpopular with near neighbours.

For the relatively high latitudes described by the OP, that may be a realistic figures for solar. But I'm not sure what a "similar value" would be in terms of wind power. If 500W, surely that can't be continuous?: it's over 40A at 12V. Perhaps it would better help northcave if you suggested a daily target in Ah? Then again, that would depend on what kit he will use onboard, of which we have only the flimsiest idea.

Living on the hook in Scotland and Norway in the dark months is a serious proposition. Whether the OP owes it to the forum to make a realistic inventory of his probable electrical demands is moot; but I think he owes it to himself. I doubt any of us want to read a post in a forthcoming spring telling us what a miserable winter he's had. On the other hand, for all we know he could be Bear Grylls in boating drag and relishing the potential misery. What I think is beyond question, and the OP seems to accept, is that 100W solar plus a single wind turbine is way insufficient.

As to annoying the neighbours, I doubt that anyone living aboard in a Norwegian winter will have many

 

[Tim Good]

the OP seems to accept, is that 100W solar plus a single wind turbine is way insufficient.

Ok so I don't plan to winter in Scotland or Norway. Only summer 2016 there. We'll head south by then and plan to cross the pond this time next year. Then it will be either on to Patagonia or through canal into the Pacific.

In terms of my usage I really don't know at this stage as I've never lived aboard. I've been refitting all the absolute necessities that I can't do en route first. I.e. engine, genset, watermaker, seacocks, prop shaft and the list goes on.

In terms of power I've only got as far as trying to keep power hungry things down. I.e. efficient fridge, good insulation, LED everything, windvane steering and so on.

Anyway I'll begin measuring up to fit some flexi panels to the coach roof and see if I can move my 100W rigid panel 90 degrees and fit another 100w next to it.

p.s. I have 4x110 Amp Service batteries not 3 as I stated earlier. Mis-typed.