Wind Force 4/5, long fetch, one full sail or 2 reefed?

[Amari]

Last week we emerged from Bozburun in Tukey to sail close hauled 10 nm to Marathouda on Simi. Wauquiez 35, 155% genoa, masrhead rig. We are rather timid sailors and SWMBO not too keen on effort of hoisting/lowering/reefing main in windy conditions. Thus we often use genoa only, unreefed on this occasion. Well, she sailed beautifully at 6 kts despite the typical rather short steep Ageaen seas. We easily left behind a similar vessel (length and type uncertain) which had reefed main and genoa. Thus it seems to us that at wind speed 4/5 why bother with the main?

 

[saltwater_gypsy]

Your heading is "a long fetch" but your text says "close hauled".
Hey if the boat "is sailing beautifully at 6 knts" Who cares.Enjoy!!

 

[Bav34]

Isn't a fetch where you are close hauled but don't have to tack?

 

[mobeydick]

Fetch is a term for the length of water over which a given wind has blown. Ie long fetch is likely to mean developed and larger waves

MD

 

[Skyva_2]

Both terms are in use:

fetch = uninterrupted distance over which the wind blows

fetch = long sail close to the wind.

I have heard fetch used as in 'we can fetch the mark' similar to 'lay the mark'

 

[Chris_Robb]

And also as BAV has described

 

[Amari]

Yes, this was close hauled without needing to tack

 

[matelot]

Seems commonsense to me to have one fuill sail up rather than 2 that are reefed. The main may well work reasonably when reefed but the roller genoa wont. Most mast head rigged boats derive more power from the genoa anyway.

for being timid, you go sailing to enjoy yourselves and relax - not to prove something. Or at least I do. So good for you.

 

[Colvic Watson]

Re the general principle of dropping one sail rather than reef both - wasn't one of the possible causes of the catastrophic steering failure, and quickly followed sinking, of the Hanse 371 'Megawat' in the Irish Sea a couple of years ago, judged to be the loads put on a (weakened) rudder tube by carrying only the full main in fairly big seas? I seem to remember several commentators suggesting that this arrangement is often chosen because it is easier to reef the genoa and carry full main rather than reef both; but that the consequence can be very high loads on the steering.

 

[johnalison]

Although your "lazy" reach is perfectly good practice and used widely in easy downwind conditions, my personal preference is to have some or all the main up, though my current rig is slightly fractional. This gives me a wider range of options if I need to haul myself to windward for any reason and stops me having to hoist the main in open-sea conditions which is harder work.

Also, having a main up makes it easier to furl the jib if the wind increases either suddenly or at the end of the trip, or should I say, fetch, as I can bear off and blanket the jib behind the main.

 

[Sans Bateau]

[ QUOTE ]
Both terms are in use:

fetch = uninterrupted distance over which the wind blows

fetch = long sail close to the wind.

I have heard fetch used as in 'we can fetch the mark' similar to 'lay the mark'

[/ QUOTE ]
I've also heard people call out to their dog, "fetch boy!"

 

[sailorman]

is she a Gladiator 35 /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Amari]

There was no feeling of extra strain on the steering - nicely balanced, hands free.

 

[Amari]

We were going to windward, cannot remember exact degrees but closer than the other vessel with 2 reefed sails. I realise that every boat is different, Amari always seems to sail well under genoa alone

 

[Amari]

[ QUOTE ]
''Seems commonsense to me to have one fuill sail up rather than 2 that are reefed. The main may well work reasonably when reefed but the roller genoa wont. ''
.
Yes I agree. Later in this voyage wind got stronger so we furled some genoa and fell off from wind at least 10 degs

 

[webcraft]

<span style="color:white"> . </span>
Most sloop or cutter rigged boats will point higher and make better progress to windward with two sails set. The vessel is also likely to be more balanced on the helm. Our (much smaller) yacht will virtually self-steer if trimmed correctly on a fetch with both sails set. With only the genoa she will point quite high but is not as balanced on the helm.

WIth the wind on or aft of the beam and more than 20 knots true we invariably dispense with the main with no loss of speed and great peace of mind as we are now ready to deal with a further increase in windspeed without having to turn upwind, get up on a small violently pitching coachroof and wrestle with a flogging main as we try to drop it in what has now become a 'must do' situation.

Every boat is different, but I am surprised if your vessel sails as efficiently to windward under genoa alone. Other factors of course include how well your sails set when reefed . . .

- W

 

[Skyva_2]

Going to windward, I have never felt comfortable with the stresses on the rig with a foresail alone. Even a heavily reefed main seems to feel stiffer and the rig is balanced better. Downwind is a different matter.

 

[Amari]

[ QUOTE ]
Going to windward, I have never felt comfortable with the stresses on the rig with a foresail alone. Even a heavily reefed main seems to feel stiffer and the rig is balanced better. Downwind is a different matter.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know how to judge stress on the rig. She seems well balanced under genoa alone.
I have never deployed the check stays (?running backstays) but we met another Wauquiez 1 month ago and owner advised us to deploy.

 

[meldrum]

It just depends on the balance of the individual boat/ rig and whether, by only using one sail you either induce lee helm if the centre of effort is moved forward of the mast by just using the jib/genoa,and weather helm if the CE is moved aft by just using the main. As long as either the lee/weather helm is not excessive its up to you. Although I think id prefer to have the boat balanced by using both sails as she'll sail better, also if you continue with one sail and the wind increases you'll end up having to rebalance the sails anyway in possibly more difficult conditions than you tried to avoid in the first place. and SWMBO will find it much more traumatic than the few moments it takes to put a reef in.

 

[gardenshed]

Met the owner (sailmaker, Philip Watson) and discussed in length the loss of his boat.
No mention was made of one sail v two. The key issues were a step in the aluminium rudder shaft with the autohelm acting on the smaller diameter (upper) section of the shaft. The very sharp step between the diameters may have created a stress riser which a gradual change in diameter would have avoided. The shaft broke at this point and the rudder dropped out.
Philip typically sails thousands of miles per annum rather than hundreds so it is unlikely that one passage with a headsail up (if that was the case) caused the problem. a related issue is the use of antifouling with copper content in close proximity to aluminium.... corrosion. Philip's view at that time was that the step in the shaft was the culprit.

Fetch:
On the wind: sailing as close to the wind as your boat will go
Close reach/Fetch typically the angle between being on the wind and a beam reach.
Beam reach: 90deg to the apparent wind
Broad Reach: between 90 & approx 150deg
Running: 150 - 180 degrees from apparent

To fetch a mark/waypoint is typically sailing up wind without the need to tack to get there.

now waiting to get shot down in flames.......