"Winch-bit" drill-powered winching

[dancrane]

To get back to the OP's question I have a "Cranker" complete winch driver which includes the Milwaukee right-angle drill but with the chuck removed and a winch adaptor substituted. It has changed our boating lives completely as we were thinking of giving up before buying the Cranker. We use it mostly for furling our yankee and mainsail but it is quite capable of hauling someone up our 60ft mast too.

Thanks Mike, good answer. The right-angle drill makes a lot more sense than standard-format, for winch duty.

I guess a 24-inch piece of alloy tube could be cable-tied to extend the length of the drill, so the torque delivered by the motor needn't be hard for the user to hold. Or maybe one of those telescopic spanner-extenders, so the thing stays compact when not in use.

 

[Flica]

I've tried an 18V Makita, on low speed it works an unloaded main halyard.
It's virtually useless for anything with a load on it.
The Winchrite will just lift my main (32m2 x 5 battens), with no extra tackle) using a Harken 40 on low speed, with a few gasps for breath.
I use it for the Anchorman manual windlass where it's a star, but not on the genoa sheets (it's easy enough to bring these in by hand and harden up using a 10' handle).
Effectively the Winchrite has a performance comparable to an 81-year-old on an 8" handle, it's also easy to recharge. So I'd suggest the OP save his money on the winch-bit, as an 18v Makita needs 230ac to recharge, the Winchrite 30' on a 12v supply (it takes about 4.5 amps).
The Winchrite is considerably cheaper than an electric winch, but nothing like as powerful.

 

[sealegsjim]

I adapted a deck filler key which on my boat has the same fitting as a standard winch. I cut off the handle and that left a 'winch bit' with short shaft that fits in the drill chuck. I use this for lowering/raising the keel

 

[Kurrawong_Kid]

I've tried an 18V Makita, on low speed it works an unloaded main halyard.
It's virtually useless for anything with a load on it.
The Winchrite will just lift my main (32m2 x 5 battens), with no extra tackle) using a Harken 40 on low speed, with a few gasps for breath.
I use it for the Anchorman manual windlass where it's a star, but not on the genoa sheets (it's easy enough to bring these in by hand and harden up using a 10' handle).
Effectively the Winchrite has a performance comparable to an 81-year-old on an 8" handle, it's also easy to recharge. So I'd suggest the OP save his money on the winch-bit, as an 18v Makita needs 230ac to recharge, the Winchrite 30' on a 12v supply (it takes about 4.5 amps).
The Winchrite is considerably cheaper than an electric winch, but nothing like as powerful.

As an 81 year old I can confirm +1 that the Winchrite’s power is slightly greater than my ability with an 8” winch handle, but slower!
I mainly use it to control the outhaul which I cannot see when winching by hand at the same time, hauling in the mainsheet before a gibe and the early stages of furling or reefing the Genoa. Providing I hold it at 90’ to the body and let go the switch pronto if torque overpowers and then reposition I have not found torque a problem. With electric winches for the Genoa sheets my wife (septuagenarian) and I can still cruise quite extensively despite decreasing strength. Highly recommended, but a bit noisy!

 

[Cantata]

As another fit and active septuagenarian I think your Winchrite may be getting tired if it struggles to hoist your mainsail. I have used mine to hoist wifey (140lb) up the mast using a coachroof winch (single-speed ST15 I think) and it didn't break into a sweat (and yes I know the instructions say don't do it but they would wouldn't they).

 

[Zing]

I've tried an 18V Makita, on low speed it works an unloaded main halyard.
It's virtually useless for anything with a load on it.
The Winchrite will just lift my main (32m2 x 5 battens), with no extra tackle) using a Harken 40 on low speed, with a few gasps for breath.
I use it for the Anchorman manual windlass where it's a star, but not on the genoa sheets (it's easy enough to bring these in by hand and harden up using a 10' handle).
Effectively the Winchrite has a performance comparable to an 81-year-old on an 8" handle, it's also easy to recharge. So I'd suggest the OP save his money on the winch-bit, as an 18v Makita needs 230ac to recharge, the Winchrite 30' on a 12v supply (it takes about 4.5 amps).
The Winchrite is considerably cheaper than an electric winch, but nothing like as powerful.

Your Makita was probably the brush motor version. The best one is their brushless motor. It puts out twice the torque. Plenty enough for my main or a 100kg human.

 

[brman]

Your Makita was probably the brush motor version. The best one is their brushless motor. It puts out twice the torque. Plenty enough for my main or a 100kg human.

Be careful, Makita have a wide and confusing range of 18V drills. Some of their brushed drills are better than some of the brushless, and vice versa.
eg.
DHP453 brushed, 27Nm soft torque. I think this is the one you are (where?) most likely to find on sale in B&Q etc. Not a great drill.
DHP458 brushed, 44Nm soft torque. This used to be one of their best before brushless came along. I have one and it could easily damage my wrist if I don't use the side arm.
DHP459 brushless 25Nm soft torque, I think their first brushless and apparently they went for light weight rather than torque.
DHP481 brushless, 60Nm soft torque. Not cheap but looks a beast of a drill, I would definitely use the side arm on this one.....

 

[Zing]

Be careful, Makita have a wide and confusing range of 18V drills. Some of their brushed drills are better than some of the brushless, and vice versa.
eg.
DHP453 brushed, 27Nm soft torque. I think this is the one you are (where?) most likely to find on sale in B&Q etc. Not a great drill.
DHP458 brushed, 44Nm soft torque. This used to be one of their best before brushless came along. I have one and it could easily damage my wrist if I don't use the side arm.
DHP459 brushless 25Nm soft torque, I think their first brushless and apparently they went for light weight rather than torque.
DHP481 brushless, 60Nm soft torque. Not cheap but looks a beast of a drill, I would definitely use the side arm on this one.....

I didn't realise they had a cheap brushless one too. They change their model line up pretty fast. The 481 is the one I have. You can't see it on the picture I looked at, but it has a really high quality chuck. I don't use the side arm, but you will have to be careful if you don't use it as it has enough power to hurt you.

 

[Trickyh]

as an 18v Makita needs 230ac to recharge

12 Volt charging bases for Makita batteries are available (DC18SE) 3Ah charge in 60mins

£200 not a bad price for a bare unit DHP481 as well. Could use it as a spare outboard if the engine fails somewhere between Hawaii and Tahiti

 

[brman]

I think you can get the bare 481 for about £150 inc vat if you shop around. It does look a bit of a beast, definitely a step up from my 458 which I thought was pretty impressive when I got it 5 years ago.

 

[captmikecoin]

I think you can get the bare 481 for about £150 inc vat if you shop around. It does look a bit of a beast, definitely a step up from my 458 which I thought was pretty impressive when I got it 5 years ago.

The Makita still has only half the torque of the Milwaukee.

Mike

 

[brman]

The Makita still has only half the torque of the Milwaukee.

Mike

really? Which Milwaukee is that? The one linked to in post 6 has has 1,081 in-lbs which is about 122Nm, but that is hard torque of which the Makita 481 quotes about 115Nm. So yes, the Milwaukee more powerful, but only by a few percent. Given the milwaukee is 28V vs the Makita 18V that isn't very impressive.
Don't get me wrong, I really like Milwaukee kit but they have a habit of picking the facts to make their kit look better than it is which makes comparision hard....

 

[Trickyh]

The Makita still has only half the torque of the Milwaukee.

Mike

Plus, it's been stated that the Makita can lift 100kg and hoist a main. How much more torque do you want? Or is this a pissing contest?

 

[captmikecoin]

really? Which Milwaukee is that? The one linked to in post 6 has has 1,081 in-lbs which is about 122Nm, but that is hard torque of which the Makita 481 quotes about 115Nm. So yes, the Milwaukee more powerful, but only by a few percent. Given the milwaukee is 28V vs the Makita 18V that isn't very impressive.
Don't get me wrong, I really like Milwaukee kit but they have a habit of picking the facts to make their kit look better than it is which makes comparision hard....

I took the 60Nm torque figure to be comparable in concept to the 122Nm of the Milwaukee. Sorry if I misunderstood. Can you explain the concept of hard and soft torque please?

Mike

 

[brman]

I took the 60Nm torque figure to be comparable in concept to the 122Nm of the Milwaukee. Sorry if I misunderstood. Can you explain the concept of hard and soft torque please?

Mike

Yes, it is confusing, particularly as Mikwaukee don't quote soft torque.

Hard torque is the maximum instantaneous torque, soft torque is the continuous torque.
So I think hard torque is a useful figure for stuff like impact drivers where it is a pulse of torque that turns the nut/screw etc. Soft torque is more useful in determining the continuous load it can handle, eg when driving a big drill bit or winching someone up the mast. That is why in my comparison I used soft torque as it better represents the work the drill can do.

That is the way I understand it anyway.......

 

[Flica]

As another fit and active septuagenarian I think your Winchrite may be getting tired if it struggles to hoist your mainsail. I have used mine to hoist wifey (140lb) up the mast using a coachroof winch (single-speed ST15 I think) and it didn't break into a sweat (and yes I know the instructions say don't do it but they would wouldn't they).

As we're in a pissing contest, the Winchrite quite easily lifted an 83kg rigger up and down the maintrack, in Alimos this summer - and still has problems with my fully battened main. I think that's heavier than your wife!!!
And before all the killjoys censure using an electric winch on lifting humans - let me say I didn't use it, one of his mates did.

 

[Sailfree]

Having a charter boat I was advised not to put power winches on.

I bought the Milwaukee 10yrs ago and can confirm it lifts a heavy weight main on a 43' boat.

It is a big right angle drill and it need to be big to hold against the torque it produces. Wrt the pissing contest the Makita is 18V but efficient as it's brushless the Milwaukee is 28V. The Milwaulkee produces 1081lb in which converts to 190Nm.

At the time I bought mine (imported from USA ' not then available in UK ) the next most powerful one was a de walt with approx half the power. Now I am only comparing rt angle drills as you need the length to resist the torque. I would expect a damaged wrist with a conventional drill.

I do like re-inventing the wheel and bought the Milwaukee after I read about many US citizens had then for chartering boats in the Caribbean.

I own a couple of Makita drills - great prices of kit - but from experience I suspect they would only work on a smaller load than is necessary for my 43' charter weight main!

 

[brman]

Having a charter boat I was advised not to put power winches on.

I bought the Milwaukee 10yrs ago and can confirm it lifts a heavy weight main on a 43' boat.

It is a big right angle drill and it need to be big to hold against the torque it produces. Wrt the pissing contest the Makita is 18V but efficient as it's brushless the Milwaukee is 28V. The Milwaulkee produces 1081lb in which converts to 190Nm.

At the time I bought mine (imported from USA ' not then available in UK ) the next most powerful one was a de walt with approx half the power. Now I am only comparing rt angle drills as you need the length to resist the torque. I would expect a damaged wrist with a conventional drill.

I do like re-inventing the wheel and bought the Milwaukee after I read about many US citizens had then for chartering boats in the Caribbean.

I own a couple of Makita drills - great prices of kit - but from experience I suspect they would only work on a smaller load than is necessary for my 43' charter weight main!

wrt the pissing contest, every online conversion I can find says that 1081lb-in is 122Nm. Am I missing something?

But yes, I cannot argue with your main point about a right angle drill being a better design for a winch. The normal drills come with (some comically long) side arms to prevent damage to the wrists but that does make it a two handed operation. Plus I agree with the inference that practical experience trumps spec sheet data anyday, I was just quoting the torque specs to point out that there is a lot of variability between what appear to be similar items.

 

[Sailfree]

Agreed I did it twice on on one site and got just under 190 now on different conversion site I get 122! Now cat find other site!

 

[photon]

I just bought a Makita 36V cordless right angle drill with the following spec.

Max Torque	136 Nm
Model No	DDA460ZK

It has a brushless motor and would appear to have sufficient torque to undertake most winching tasks. It takes commonly available 18V Li-ion batteries and I hope to test it on our Bavaria 44 in May. I am somewhat surprised at the cost of the winch adaptor bits generally on sale around £45-55. This seems OTT for a simple component. Anyone with manufacturing facilities?