Will Rocna fit a Berwick bow?

[DennisF]

Hi all,

I'm considering upgrading my rather undersized Bruce anchor, and considering a 15kg Rocna. Obviously, however, I don't want to splash the cash only to find it won't fit the bow roller or bow shape of the Berwick. Has anyone fitted one successfully to a Westerly Berwick or Longbow?

 

[Tranona]

You can download a template from the website to check whether it will fit. doubt it will as you bow roller was made long before this style and shape of anchor was introduced.

 

[VicS]

Hi all,

I'm considering upgrading my rather undersized Bruce anchor, and considering a 15kg Rocna. Obviously, however, I don't want to splash the cash only to find it won't fit the bow roller or bow shape of the Berwick. Has anyone fitted one successfully to a Westerly Berwick or Longbow?

I reckon it would be Ok on the sort of "bowsprit" that the ketch versions have but I doubt if it will fit the sloop .

 

[DennisF]

I reckon it would be Ok on the sort of "bowsprit" that the ketch versions have but I doubt if it will fit the sloop .

I've just made up a cardboard cutout of the Rocna from the website, and will try it out the next time I am at the boat. If it doesn't fit, and I suspect it won't, I'll have to keep my eye out for a bigger genuine Bruce.

 

[Neeves]

In case they slipped your attention there are other modern anchors that might fit - you could think of a Spade for example. Kobra would be a thought though you need to be conscious its shank is a bit questionable. I don't know what deal Anchor Right, from Oz, might do but they have sold a number into Europe. Manson have their Boss and CMP the Vulcan - though user reports on these latter 2 are a bit thin on the ground.

If you beg, borrow or steal any or all of these I'd challenge you to identify the difference in most seabeds - but some of them will fit your bow roller.

Jonathan

 

[DennisF]

In case they slipped your attention there are other modern anchors that might fit - you could think of a Spade for example. Kobra would be a thought though you need to be conscious its shank is a bit questionable. I don't know what deal Anchor Right, from Oz, might do but they have sold a number into Europe. Manson have their Boss and CMP the Vulcan - though user reports on these latter 2 are a bit thin on the ground.

If you beg, borrow or steal any or all of these I'd challenge you to identify the difference in most seabeds - but some of them will fit your bow roller.

Jonathan

Forgive my ignorance, but what is it about the Spade that would make it fit my bow roller if the Rocna will not? I had assumed it was about the angle of the plough tip rather than anything else.

 

[Neeves]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is it about the Spade that would make it fit my bow roller if the Rocna will not? I had assumed it was about the angle of the plough tip rather than anything else.

No idea (there is a dearth of Westerly's out here) - but there are other options and you appeared to suggest your, only, fall back was a bigger Bruce (and if you want to upgrade from a Bruce then a bigger one will probably not be much different). Most yachts were built to accommodate a CQR, Bruce or Delta, and today bow rollers seem designed round a Delta (which must be really annoying for some anchor makers). Commonly if a Delta fits then a Spade, Kobra, Excel would fit. If a big Bruce fits then I'd think a Boss might fit and if a Spade fits then a Vulcan will probably fit. Most anchor makers 'offer' templates or dimensions.

You are, in common, with virtually everyone else, suggesting that because the Bruce is 'undersized' you should buy (a) a better anchor and (b) a bigger anchor - so a bigger, better anchor. You may find a better anchor, say a Rocna to the same size as your Bruce, will fit the bow roller, give you the performance improvement you are missing and save you money.

Jonathan

Edit

I've just looked the Berwick up - a 15kg Rocna would be 'generous' in size. There are plenty on this forum using similarly sized anchors for much larger yachts (and similarly sized anchors on the same sized yachts). We use 15kg anchors on a 38' x 7t cat, have done now for almost a decade. So 15kg will be fine but I am pretty sure something smaller, from the modern portfolio, will be equally adequate.

close edit

 

[Tranona]

Don't waste your money on a Bruce, unless you can find a used genuine one as all the new ones are copies - and the basic anchor is not very good compared with more recent designs. A 10kg Delta would be a good choice for an all round anchor. "New generation" anchors such as the ones Neeves suggest will be better, but they are very much more expensive and you will almost certainly have change you stem head fitting if you want to stow it there.

 

[DennisF]

Don't waste your money on a Bruce, unless you can find a used genuine one as all the new ones are copies - and the basic anchor is not very good compared with more recent designs. A 10kg Delta would be a good choice for an all round anchor. "New generation" anchors such as the ones Neeves suggest will be better, but they are very much more expensive and you will almost certainly have change you stem head fitting if you want to stow it there.

Fair enough. I'm still struggling to understand what it is about the stem head fitting on older boats such as mine that mean they cannot take newer design anchors- is it the angle of flukes to the bow or that they are not tall enough to hold the anchor shanks or something else?

 

[NormanS]

Don't waste your money on a Bruce, unless you can find a used genuine one as all the new ones are copies - and the basic anchor is not very good compared with more recent designs. A 10kg Delta would be a good choice for an all round anchor. "New generation" anchors such as the ones Neeves suggest will be better, but they are very much more expensive and you will almost certainly have change you stem head fitting if you want to stow it there.

Oh goody! It's turning into a traditional anchor thread. Mine's a .........and it's the best, 'cos I bought one.

 

[Neeves]

There has been no mention of one being better than another - so don't encourage us After all its Xmas: when we are generous and sweet - hopefully even about anchors.

Dennis' concern is getting one that fits, which is a reasonable concern - and the one that fits will be the best, for him.

I too am interested in why an anchor might not fit - and have assumed Dennis has tried some and found them wanting. Considering the age of the design I would have thought at least a CQR would fit, a Bruce fits (or that's what is being used) - I would have thought if a CQR fits then a Delta would fit. edit - a reason for the current Bruce being undersized might be - that's what would fit? close edit

But in part answer to Dennis' query - if the stem head was designed round a CQR it did have a low profile, but very chunky, shank. Most new anchors since then, including a Bruce, have a much thinner shank which is also 'higher' (so shanks are made from a steel plate rather than drop forged). I cannot think of a low profile shank on any modern anchor - and in fact most anchors now have similarly profiled shanks.

Jonathan

 

[Kelpie]

I find my 15kg Rocna fits Ok on the roller of my 1970 boat, similar vintage to the OP. Critical thing was that the roller is higher than the deck- this means that with the chain pulled tight back to the windlass, the shank is slightly below horizontal and the tip does not hit the bow. I lash the shank down tight for good measure.

 

[Neeves]

If the problem is as Kelpie describes then any or all anchors would fit if:

Take a line from one side of the roller, back through the shackle or shank shackle hole and back to the other side of the bow roller. Pull the anchor tight against this rope, dyneema works well but a wire strop and snaplink would work equally well. The fluke can then be braced at whatever distance is appropriate that the toe does not hit the bow. Then lash to stop it swinging in the bow roller. Lashing is a good idea anyway, belt and braces to stop the anchor falling off the roller. Most anchors have holes in the shank (and roll bars are good lashing points), making lashing relatively easy.

But Dennis has not been too descriptive of what the issue(s) is/are - so guessing.

Jonathan

 

[KAL]

If it's any help, we have a Rocna on our Discus and it fits fine, but only about a cm spare.

Like an earlier post suggests, make the cardboard template, take it to the boat and you will soon see. That's what we did and it was well worth the effort.

 

[duncan99210]

On my Bavaria, the issue wasn't that the Rocna wouldn't fit but the fact that the flukes obscured the bi colour navigation light. The shape of the shank and the higher joint between the shank and flukes meant that when secured in the roller, the whole anchor sat a good deal higher than the CQR it replaced, where the shank was the highest part of the anchor when stowed with the flukes all below level of the deck.
The other thing to consider is that the foll bar of the Rocna and similar may prevent the anchor stowing, so a roll barless anchor such as the Vulcan may be an easier fit.

 

[DennisF]

Thanks all. I haven't tried any other anchors as yet, but know from the deck fittings that the boat has previously had a CQR and currently has a 10kg genuine Bruce which fits fine on the bow roller and has been previously drilled to take 2 Clevis pins to secure it. As per my previous post I've made up the cardboard template of the Rocna, and will try this when I am next at the boat in the New Year. If that doesn't fit it will give me a better idea of what the issues are.

 

[doug748]

If it won't fit, I have a 15kg Bruce available, in good order in the West of England. I use a 10kg which fits more easily in the locker.

I am uncommitted on the matter of new anchor designs but there is no doubt in my mind that the Bruce is one of the best in terms of construction and finish.

 

[Seajet]

A chum has a Rocna - I forget the size but substantial - on his Centaur; there's no chance of fitting it ready to go ( or ram ) on the roller, so it goes on the foredeck.

The big problem is getting it through the pulpit legs with the forestay in the way, it's like one of those metal puzzles - so not ideal.

I realise the Berwick is a touch bigger, but is the pulpit leg spacing ?

It's not unuseable on chum's boat, just not the optimum in speed to deploy.

 

[Tranona]

There has been no mention of one being better than another - so don't encourage us After all its Xmas: when we are generous and sweet - hopefully even about anchors.

Dennis' concern is getting one that fits, which is a reasonable concern - and the one that fits will be the best, for him.



Jonathan

The point I was trying to make was that genuine Bruce anchors are no longer available new, so if he is going to change a Delta would fit. Also not sure whether a 15 kg Bruce is a good choice (although I see doug has one spare). A 15 kg is really too big, (a 10kg for both Bruce and Delta is the recommended size) for his boat, particularly if he does not have a good electric windlass.

 

[DennisF]

The point I was trying to make was that genuine Bruce anchors are no longer available new, so if he is going to change a Delta would fit. Also not sure whether a 15 kg Bruce is a good choice (although I see doug has one spare). A 15 kg is really too big, (a 10kg for both Bruce and Delta is the recommended size) for his boat, particularly if he does not have a good electric windlass.

That's an interesting point. The 10kg Bruce I have at present is indeed the size recommended by them, and has never dragged once I've got it to set, although that sometimes takes 2 or 3 goes and I've never tested it in any real blow. However, the Rocna sizing chart states that since my boat is over 9m and over 4T they recommend either the 12kg Vulcan or 15kg Rocna. Anyhow, my first step will be to see if the cut out of the Rocna will fit on the bow roller as I suspect manoeuvring a Rocna through the pulpit and roller reefing would be difficult. I'll think about Spade, Delta etc if the Rocna will not fit.