Will my keel fall off?

[skodster]

Hi All,

I know it's a bit of a dramatic title but I have a concern that the the integrity of the keel/hull isn't 100%.

I have a forty year old Inerga Puma 23 and she's had a hard life. I was scraping the paint off the underside and noticed that there was a section of filler either side of the keel root. Digging away further revealed a small loose chunk of filler and beneath it a bit of corroded iron.

Is there anyone here that could provide an idea as to how the keel is actually attached to the hull? I can't see any evidence of keel bolts but also can't understand why there is the three inch wide strip of filler either side.

There is a chunk of GRP off the leading edge of the keel so the keel looks as if it is encapsulated in some way. (photo)

Any clues?

 

[Seajet]

I don't know this design at all; am I right in thinking those are planks in the pic ?

I wouldn't be at all surprised to find filler at the root of a bolt-on keel, even on a grp boat; but I would want to find the bolts if they're 40 years old !

 

[30boat]

I don't know this design at all; am I right in thinking those are planks in the pic ?

I wouldn't be at all surprised to find filler at the root of a bolt-on keel, even on a grp boat; but I would want to find the bolts if they're 40 years old !

These are Spanish built fiberglass boats.Quite common around these parts.
The op should post photos of the inside keel area.I'm sure there must be bolts somewhere.

 

[kevink 6771]

TBH, it looks fine to me, but considering mine look a bit dodgy too ( and far worse than yours) i'm possibly not the you to take too much advice from.

 

[rob2]

It looks like the keel is cast iron. The root is a plate to sit in a recess in the bottom of the hull and there will be keelbolts to hold it on! The strip of filler around it is just to fair the keel in to the lines of the hull. The lump of GRP missing from the leading edge is typical for a boat of this age - the whole keel, when new, has been encased in resin to fair it and protect it from rusting.

I would be inclined to find the keel bolts and pull at least one to see how they are doing. You might like to patch the missing bit on the leading edge - grind it back to clean metal and coat immediately or it will rust again. The fairing around the root of the keel is likely to have degraded somewhat over the years, if it is just filler it doesn't have any reinforcement to strengthen it. It would be fairly simple to rake it out and refill it.

A friend's T24 had a similar keel with the encasing resin cracking up, so we simply broke it all off and painted it.

Rob.

 

[Grajan]

Could be just a cast keel inside a keel moulding with out any bolts! I remember one of the early Vivacity's being built like that only difference was that the ballast was concrete and steel stampings not cast iron.
If the full internal ballast is cast iron I would reckon someone has glassed the keel because of the shape. however in those early days of GRP boats we had some weird ideas and they were experimented with! Keels were filled with railway lines cut to length and or reject ball bearings and either cemented in or set in resin, it is amazing how little catalyst is required when encapsulating ballast in resin as temperatures could easily reach smoking hot if you werent careful. there were many alternatives and combinations used to achieve the correct ballast ratio so nothing would surprise me.
I would certainly check the bilges for keel bolts but dont be surprised if non are visible.
I would say go and enjoy your sailing but I believe that GRP of this vintage is vunerable and should be treated like an old lady and with reverence i.e. no three hour thrashes to windward in a force 6!

 

[skodster]

Thanks for the replies so far guys.

The strips of filler are uniform both sides so the poster that suggested bolts may well be correct. I may gouge out the filler (as it would be easy to make good again) and take a look. Unfortunately the boat has an inner liner that prevents good unfettered access.

I will have a feel around later and see what can be found.

 

[Tranona]

Thanks for the replies so far guys.

The strips of filler are uniform both sides so the poster that suggested bolts may well be correct. I may gouge out the filler (as it would be easy to make good again) and take a look. Unfortunately the boat has an inner liner that prevents good unfettered access.

I will have a feel around later and see what can be found.

Think you will find that your keel is not a bolt on separate item. If it was, the keel bolts would be clearly visible inside the boat - evn if they were glassed over. Looking at the damage at the front suggests it is a GRP moulding with a casting dropped inside. The moulding itself seems bonded to the hull, then the casting inserted and the whole lot glassed over internally before the inner lining is put in. Many boats have inner linings and bolt on keels, but there are access panels in the lining to where the bolts are.

You can repair the damage by grinding the iron clean and glassing over, fairing your new glass into the original.

 

[William_H]

Keel bolts

There was suggestion that you pull keel bolts and inspect. If you find them they may not be easy to pull.
It is common to try to Xray keel bolts to search for corrosion or wasting rather than pull the bolts. Not necessarily very successful.
I would suggest you consider gaining access to the hull above the keel and drilling down into the keel from above. Buy say 4 suitable length bolts say 12mm diameter and a tap (2 taps a plug and taper) and add additional bolts. This should make it more positive attachment regardless of present bolt condition and give you confidence.
Or you might consider adding more fibreglass from hull around the keel and back to the hull. Consider using Kevlar or carbon for more strength and it would take a lot of fairing off.
Re the poster who said "be gentle on the old lady no thrashing to windward in force 6". Well you can't always choose the weather you end up in. You would not want to feel obliged to gentle the boat at any time. Further I suspect groundings would be far more damaging to a keel attachment than beating to windward. Obviously for you to post this question means you must for your own peace of mind fix it in some way. There is enough to worry about out there without concern about boat integrity good luck olewill

 

[Chrusty 1]

Think you will find that your keel is not a bolt on separate item. If it was, the keel bolts would be clearly visible inside the boat - evn if they were glassed over. Looking at the damage at the front suggests it is a GRP moulding with a casting dropped inside. The moulding itself seems bonded to the hull, then the casting inserted and the whole lot glassed over internally before the inner lining is put in. Many boats have inner linings and bolt on keels, but there are access panels in the lining to where the bolts are.

You can repair the damage by grinding the iron clean and glassing over, fairing your new glass into the original.

I agree with Tranona, looking at the photos she has an encapsulated keel. You can see where the keel moulding is bonded into the hull. I would just clean and re-fair, give the whole thing a couple of good coats of quality primer, whatever brew suits your pocket and inclination, re-antifoul and go sailing. Have you got a photo of the boat? I don't think I have seen one of those before.

 

[nigelmercier]

You lot are losing it! Ten posts about a keel falling off, and nobody mentions Bavaria!

 

[30boat]

I agree with Tranona, looking at the photos she has an encapsulated keel. You can see where the keel moulding is bonded into the hull. I would just clean and re-fair, give the whole thing a couple of good coats of quality primer, whatever brew suits your pocket and inclination, re-antifoul and go sailing. Have you got a photo of the boat? I don't think I have seen one of those before.

From what I can see in the photos it appears that the keel has a flange that fits in a recess in the hull and it's the fairing filler that's coming off.If the keel is in fact encapsulated then the crack around it means that the fiberglass is breaking and the keel is coming loose.It is very important to establish wether the keel is encapsulated or bolted on because that crack can mean entirely different things depending on the method of attachment.

 

[Tranona]

You lot are losing it! Ten posts about a keel falling off, and nobody mentions Bavaria!

Can't compete with the fantasy running currently on Liveaboard!

 

[Towger]

Hi Skodster,

There are 'lumps' in the bilge which we always took to the keel bolts glassed over.

I have been out racing in her when it blew up to a Force 9. Actually at force 9 you don't have much pressure on the keel, you are head to wind trying to get the sails down, worrying that the mast might fall down first.