Will a Garmin GPS Sensor work with an aging Raymarine Chartplotter/MFD

[ritchyp]

Hi Paul, Refueler

Been a while since i've worked on a E90W, but i'm pretty sure that you only get the GPS icon showing if the GPS is connected to the Seatalk GPS port.

This won't change with the GPS you have bought. You are using course data to show the way the boat is facing. That is derived from GPS data. If you're not moving, it doesn't work. What you need is heading data, this has to come from a compass, usually fluxgate. This should be available from the autopilot, look through the menus to select it.

Just to confirm, there should be one terminator on the N2K section and one on the STNG section, the two sections connected together by a backbone cable (N2K to STNG)

Yes, One at each end of the combined network backbone I have an N2K terminator at the beginning of that backbone and a blue STNG terminator at the end STNG end of the network. I have no unused N2K drop connectors and no unused STNG spur sockets.

I have to agree, page 34 of the Raymarine is confusing, The outs are ins and Ins are outs, It is referring to Talking and Listening device. Meaning OUT is to come from the talking device's OUTPut and vice versa. This definitely needs to be checked, One thing I should mention (I remember this from last summer) is that you can look at what data is being sent and received on the ports. On port 1 there are strings of data being sent AND received. On port 2 data is being sent out but there is Nothing What-so-Ever being received. I distinctly remember it now and thinking that a wire must be loose or not making proper contact as it is wired up with Choccy Blocks by a previous owner. I have a bag of the Gel filled crimp connectors, which I bought to replace the horrible and over-sized Choccy blocks

As I mentioned earlier, I spent half of the Summer replacing all the old Stowe Instruments that started failing in April. When the depth went on the blink intermittently and i touched the bottom a couple of times. I decided it was time to replace them all. Months of work so when the AIS wasn't showing on the plotter but was still working on the AIS device itself. I needed to get some actual sailing in before the season was over.

My plan is to have all the bugs ironed out and everything working by Mid March. Everything.

I wont bother with this drone GPS at this stage. You have both been very, very helpful and I feel confident that I can figure this all out and get to where i want to be. I see that Vela-Navega is now making an N2K-0183 WiFi Multiplexor which will enable me to get everything comminating.

If I run into any difficulties, I may well revisit this thread but for now..... Many thanks and Happy Sailing 2024

 

[PaulRainbow]

Hi Paul, Refueler


I have to agree, page 34 of the Raymarine is confusing, The outs are ins and Ins are outs, It is referring to Talking and Listening device. Meaning OUT is to come from the talking device's OUTPut and vice versa. This definitely needs to be checked, One thing I should mention (I remember this from last summer) is that you can look at what data is being sent and received on the ports. On port 1 there are strings of data being sent AND received. On port 2 data is being sent out but there is Nothing What-so-Ever being received. I distinctly remember it now and thinking that a wire must be loose or not making proper contact as it is wired up with Choccy Blocks by a previous owner.

Page 34 is easy if you ignore the three "boxes" at the bottom.

I have a bag of the Gel filled crimp connectors, which I bought to replace the horrible and over-sized Choccy blocks

Please don't use these. Make a small enclosure with some inline Wago connectors.

I wont bother with this drone GPS at this stage. You have both been very, very helpful and I feel confident that I can figure this all out and get to where i want to be. I see that Vela-Navega is now making an N2K-0183 WiFi Multiplexor which will enable me to get everything comminating.

You don't need the multiplexor, unless you need to send data via WIFI, the AIS has enough ports for your needs.

If I run into any difficulties, I may well revisit this thread but for now..... Many thanks and Happy Sailing 2024

You too. I'd be interested to see answers to the questions in post #20

 

[ritchyp]

Page 34 is easy if you ignore the three "boxes" at the bottom.

Please don't use these. Make a small enclosure with some inline Wago connectors.

You don't need the multiplexor, unless you need to send data via WIFI, the AIS has enough ports for your needs.


You too. I'd be interested to see answers to the questions in post #20

 

[ritchyp]

I'll let you know Paul. I'm certain that i have the MA500TR configured correctly as i went through the manual and followed the instructions as per your post. I am fairly certain that it is the wiring between the AIS unit and port 2 of the e90w. There is no data coming in on port 2 e90w, only data going out. I think I have a couple of wires the wrong way around. I will let you know how it goes

I can't say that i have coma across any option in the e90w settings or the P70S to have the heading sensor on the EV1 showing on the plotter. I know its possible to have the plotter controlling the autopilot so it will change course from WP to WP

 

[PaulRainbow]

I'll let you know Paul. I'm certain that i have the MA500TR configured correctly as i went through the manual and followed the instructions as per your post. I am fairly certain that it is the wiring between the AIS unit and port 2 of the e90w. There is no data coming in on port 2 e90w, only data going out. I think I have a couple of wires the wrong way around. I will let you know how it goes

If you only have 2 wires connected to port 2 and data is going out, it's connected to the out port. You need to use the orange/green (-) and orange/white (+).

If no data is coming in on port 2, how does the plotter get GPS data ? I assume you must have a second connection from either the VHF or the AIS, This is unnecessary and likely to cause issues when you get data coming in on port 2, because port 2 will carry both GPS and AIS data.

If you get port 2 working, disconnect any other GPS inputs to the plotter.

 

[Refueler]

Really hoping for you ....

As Paul says - sounds as though you connected to wrong 'orange' pairs ....

Don't forget that NMEA standard demands that no damage or harm be done by wrong connection (data leads that is) - so you can swap / try till you get something.
I've had gear in the past ... such as Magellan feeding a network of Jornado WinCE and PC ... That was a nightmare but sorted just by patient connection by connection trial.

 

[ritchyp]

This is a quick question for Paul Rainbow (No doubt Refueler also know's the answer)

This brings the thread back to the original post subject.
When I removed all the old Stowe Instruments and transducers, This Garmin GPS plotter was disconnected from the network. It is still connected to the main switch panel and has its own switch and it still works as a standalone GPS. It is flush mounted at the chart table and I see no reason at the moment to remove it

I would like to get it back on the network using Com 1, these are the blue and brown wires I disconnected from the old Stowe Hub. It would be nice to have it fully functional again for Redundancy sake. Am I correct in thinking that it is single ended? I would like to connect it to e90w on port1 at 4800 baud so that it will receive depth and wind data etc.
I noticed from the diagram that both Com 1 RX and RX are Positive so I wanted to check that the ground acts as the negative data connection. I wont be adding a power source to the network either. Both the Garmin and thee90w are talkers and listeners so I should be able to add them to Port 1 on the e90w if one other device is already using Port 1 on e90.

I'm not going to bother messing around with the drone GPS chip. As you said, I have already got the icom GPS and will have the Garmin too. I may have to change the AIS output to AIS only instaed of AIS + GPS if there is a conflict.

Reading the e90W manual again. You have to set the GPS source to either 0183, Seatalk 1 or N2K/STNG. As I dont have any GPS devices on anything apart from 0183 that is an obvious choice.

I am just checking that I have figured this out correctly and it should work.

 

[PaulRainbow]

This is a quick question for Paul Rainbow (No doubt Refueler also know's the answer)

This brings the thread back to the original post subject.
When I removed all the old Stowe Instruments and transducers, This Garmin GPS plotter was disconnected from the network. It is still connected to the main switch panel and has its own switch and it still works as a standalone GPS. It is flush mounted at the chart table and I see no reason at the moment to remove it

I would like to get it back on the network using Com 1, these are the blue and brown wires I disconnected from the old Stowe Hub. It would be nice to have it fully functional again for Redundancy sake. Am I correct in thinking that it is single ended? I would like to connect it to e90w on port1 at 4800 baud so that it will receive depth and wind data etc.
I noticed from the diagram that both Com 1 RX and RX are Positive so I wanted to check that the ground acts as the negative data connection.

Yes it does.

I wont be adding a power source to the network either. Both the Garmin and thee90w are talkers and listeners so I should be able to add them to Port 1 on the e90w if one other device is already using Port 1 on e90.

You must not connect any of the NMEA 0183 wires to a positive power supply. You can have two listeners, but only one talker.

I'm not going to bother messing around with the drone GPS chip. As you said, I have already got the icom GPS and will have the Garmin too. I may have to change the AIS output to AIS only instaed of AIS + GPS if there is a conflict.

You should only have a single GPS source.

Reading the e90W manual again. You have to set the GPS source to either 0183, Seatalk 1 or N2K/STNG. As I dont have any GPS devices on anything apart from 0183 that is an obvious choice.

I am just checking that I have figured this out correctly and it should work.

Yes, should all work.

 

[ritchyp]

If you only have 2 wires connected to port 2 and data is going out, it's connected to the out port. You need to use the orange/green (-) and orange/white (+).

If no data is coming in on port 2, how does the plotter get GPS data ? I assume you must have a second connection from either the VHF or the AIS, This is unnecessary and likely to cause issues when you get data coming in on port 2, because port 2 will carry both GPS and AIS data.

If you get port 2 working, disconnect any other GPS inputs to the plotter.

Well last weekend I decided to unscrew the instrument panel at the chart table in order to the wiring in question and see if the orange/green - & orange /white + were being used and if you see the attached photo, you can see that they are. Disappointing.....:/ After scrutinising the pin out diagram from the AIS MA500-TR (15 pin RS 422 D type) I could find nothing wrong. Pin 1 Ground, Pins 2,3,4,5 to and from the icom MC505 DSCVHF radio on NMEA port 1 and pins 7 & 8 are connected to NMEA Port 2 @38,400 baud to the e90w.

You will see on the photo, I have marked a black/white and red/black twisted pair with a grey shielded outer sheath.
Having replaced all the transducers and their respective instrument displays, I have removed close to 50m of this same cable from the boat and rewired with an N2K/STNG Network. In an ideal world with money not a concern, I would replace them with New N2K units but they work fine and in perfect condition cosmetically so why would i spend a load more cash? Gettng back to the twisted pair, Decided to disconnect it and see if anything changed because of course! it disappears into a hole which from feeling the cable, goes toward the stern. I have also highlighted something of importance on page 34 of the e90w manual.
As soon as I pulled one of the 4 wires out (the white from the twisted pair) The e90w mounted above the binnacle started beeping and that normally means its lost its GPS signal which was flashing in red on the screen. The moment I put the white wire back into the connector block, the alarm stopped and GPS was restored.
NMEA Extension cable? Why do i need one? Then the penny dropped! It was almost dark outside so I estimated it was about 1800. I had my good friend with me for company and a 2nd set of hands when required and he needed me to take him home and a 90 minute drive away.

The e90w can be mounted on a short mounting post at head height at the back of the chart table. There is a 19 pin power and data cable there and I have the another connector glanded up through the cockpit floor and neatly cable tied up to a 3d swivel mount at head height in front of the helm wheel. before I added it to the network by way of a STNG spur cable, I only ever had the chart and the GPS but plugging in the STNG, gave me True and apparent wind arrows, a line representing heading and and a line for COG, plus SOG, STW and depth. Autopilot control too as that is all on STNG. All that was missing was AIS.

When I bought the boat the e90w was where it is now and i have never moved it. Its no use to me down at the chart table. I have Charts and books and dividers and a Portland plotter.

I believe that mounted at helm, it only has NMEA 0183 from and too the VHF on Port 1. (just a theoretical conclusion) The orange/green & orange white wires I have connected to pins 7 & 8 of the AIS only go to the end that is at the chart table.

At that point I realised I had kept my pal waiting for too long so I never had the opportunity to remove the e90w from the helm and connect it at the chart table. We quickly grabbed our gear and I locked the boat up and off we went.

What say you? or Refueler