Why not buy a decent boat in a cheaper country ?

[Ben Dockrell 22]

Hello

Many countries are far cheaper than this one to buy a decent old fishing boat at a fraction of the cost ?

Have you done this ?

Just choose the country and make time to get to know the local area of that country checking the local boat yards ?

Then have a word with a local who can do the deal on your behalf or just do the deal yourself?

it seems like a good idea or am i wrong ? eh eh eh eh ?

 

[TQA]

Hello

Many countries are far cheaper than this one to buy a decent old fishing boat at a fraction of the cost ?

Have you done this ?

Just choose the country and make time to get to know the local area of that country checking the local boat yards ?

Then have a word with a local who can do the deal on your behalf or just do the deal yourself?

it seems like a good idea or am i wrong ? eh eh eh eh ?

Yup

 

[Ariadne]

Caribbean or US; twice the boat for half the cost!

The EU & UK are f'ing extorsionit for boat prices!!!!!!!

 

[Ben Dockrell 22]

Caribbean or US; twice the boat for half the cost!

The EU & UK are f'ing extorsionit for boat prices!!!!!!!

Hello Ariadne

Its when i read a blog of a family on this forum who visited Tobago around 2009 and mentioned what they could get for thier money that got me thinking this way

 

[Ben Dockrell 22]

Yup

Yup

I note places like bulgaria and croatia might be cheaper, perhaps a matter of luck more than anything due to so many ex pats.

 

[DownWest]

Your problems start when (if) you want to bring it back into the EU. Assuming that it is sourced outside, like in Tobago.
Read any of the posts about buying in the US.

 

[st599]

Presumably the cost of import duty, VAT, registration and getting it checked against the RCD requirements would equalise the costs a bit.

 

[EugeneR]

Despite rcd, vat and costs you can still get your boat for half to two thirds (current exchange) the uk value. Been there, done that a number of times. That includes making them identical to uk boat, fwiw.

 

[Jim@sea]

I bought a decent 22 Ft Fishing Boat when I lived in France. It was 20 years old, 1 owner from new and perfect. The problem is that after I brought it back to the UK and wanted to sell it 6 years later I really struggled to find a buyer as nobody had heard of the make and I took a big drop in price.

 

[Ben Dockrell 22]

Despite rcd, vat and costs you can still get your boat for half to two thirds (current exchange) the uk value. Been there, done that a number of times. That includes making them identical to uk boat, fwiw.

May i ask what you did admin wise with uk tax ect ect ? did you write a blog on it or is there a website where i can read it ?

No worries if not at least i know its been done cheers

 

[Ben Dockrell 22]

I bought a decent 22 Ft Fishing Boat when I lived in France. It was 20 years old, 1 owner from new and perfect. The problem is that after I brought it back to the UK and wanted to sell it 6 years later I really struggled to find a buyer as nobody had heard of the make and I took a big drop in price.

Hello Jim

I tend to think it would be difficult to recoup the money on smaller vessels though where it would really make the difference are the larger sailing and motor craft.

 

[electrosys]

Just choose the country and make time to get to know the local area of that country checking the local boat yards ?
Then have a word with a local who can do the deal on your behalf or just do the deal yourself?)

Apart from the financial hike involved in importing to the EU, I think the above strategum presents many additional problems. Buying a boat in one's own country is fraught with enough pitfalls - including travelling several hundred miles and wasting a day only to discover that "needing slight attention" doesn't mean the same to you, as it does to the vendor.
Buying at a distance, presumably unseen (by yourself), and perhaps with a language barrier involved sounds crazy to me.

Did you ever see Zorba the Greek ? "Izz no problem ..."

(oh - and btw - locals have loyalties ... and they may not be towards yourself)

 

[Ben Dockrell 22]

Apart from the financial hike involved in importing to the EU, I think the above strategum presents many additional problems. Buying a boat in one's own country is fraught with enough pitfalls - including travelling several hundred miles and wasting a day only to discover that "needing slight attention" doesn't mean the same to you, as it does to the vendor.
Buying at a distance, presumably unseen (by yourself), and perhaps with a language barrier involved sounds crazy to me.

Did you ever see Zorba the Greek ? "Izz no problem ..."

(oh - and btw - locals have loyalties ... and they may not be towards yourself)

I wonder at what point you become liable for tax ?

once in british waters economic zone ?

or not until in the 12 NM limit ?

Or only when in harbour ?

If outside of these areas then a smaller uk boat could be used to get to shore ?

Just an idea

 

[Ben Dockrell 22]

Despite rcd, vat and costs you can still get your boat for half to two thirds (current exchange) the uk value. Been there, done that a number of times. That includes making them identical to uk boat, fwiw.

Just in case some of us didnt see this helpful post a little while ago to

 

[Tranona]

I wonder at what point you become liable for tax ?

once in british waters economic zone ?

or not until in the 12 NM limit ?

Or only when in harbour ?

If outside of these areas then a smaller uk boat could be used to get to shore ?

Just an idea

This is a very well trod path. Boats are cheaper elsewhere (or not) because it reflects demand. If few people want to buy them the price will fall. The only price that matters is the cost of buying and getting a boat to where you want to use it.

So, some examples. Boats are "cheap" in the US - because generally there are no big taxes on them and US buyers prefer new boats, so anything that is old or unusual will be "cheap". This is great if you want to use your boat in the US or the Caribbean for example. However, if you want to use it in the EU, you first have to get it across the Atlantic (£12k) then you have to get it to comply with EU regulations - anything up to £8k for a reasonable size sailing boat, assuming you can get all the required data. Then possibly duty (depending on boat) and VAT at 20% on top of all that. So a boat that cost you £50k in the US could easily cost you an EXTRA £30k to get it to the EU. The market value will almost certainly be less than a straightforward EU boat. As Eugene says, there are some boats where it is possible to do this economically - usually smallish power boats which are cheap in the US, specs very close to EU, and good demand in UK because of limited supply.

On the other hand you find even within the EU wide variations in price. For example boats are expensive in Italy because of local taxes and bureaucracy, relatively cheap in Greece because of lack of local demand and boats are owned by non-residents. However, it costs anything up to £10k to bring a boat from Greece to UK (I know, I have done it), so only worth buying in Greece if you want to use it in that area.

Other cross border purchases (and sales) can be worth it. For a period post 2008 UK based boats were cheaper (in Euros) than in Northern Europe, so many boats were sold to French/German/Swedish etc buyers. On the other hand, Holland can be a good place to buy, particularly older British boats which are not now so popular there so tend to be cheaper than here.

And so it goes on - just basic economics of supply and demand, with variable exchange rates thrown in for a bit of excitement. You just have to look at each situation, weigh up the pros and cons and see how they fit in with your needs.

 

[davidej]

This is a very well trod path. Boats are cheaper elsewhere (or not) because it reflects demand. If few people want to buy them the price will fall. The only price that matters is the cost of buying and getting a boat to where you want to use it.

So, some examples. Boats are "cheap" in the US - because generally there are no big taxes on them and US buyers prefer new boats, so anything that is old or unusual will be "cheap". This is great if you want to use your boat in the US or the Caribbean for example. However, if you want to use it in the EU, you first have to get it across the Atlantic (£12k) then you have to get it to comply with EU regulations - anything up to £8k for a reasonable size sailing boat, assuming you can get all the required data. Then possibly duty (depending on boat) and VAT at 20% on top of all that. So a boat that cost you £50k in the US could easily cost you an EXTRA £30k to get it to the EU. The market value will almost certainly be less than a straightforward EU boat. As Eugene says, there are some boats where it is possible to do this economically - usually smallish power boats which are cheap in the US, specs very close to EU, and good demand in UK because of limited supply.

On the other hand you find even within the EU wide variations in price. For example boats are expensive in Italy because of local taxes and bureaucracy, relatively cheap in Greece because of lack of local demand and boats are owned by non-residents. However, it costs anything up to £10k to bring a boat from Greece to UK (I know, I have done it), so only worth buying in Greece if you want to use it in that area.

Other cross border purchases (and sales) can be worth it. For a period post 2008 UK based boats were cheaper (in Euros) than in Northern Europe, so many boats were sold to French/German/Swedish etc buyers. On the other hand, Holland can be a good place to buy, particularly older British boats which are not now so popular there so tend to be cheaper than here.

And so it goes on - just basic economics of supply and demand, with variable exchange rates thrown in for a bit of excitement. You just have to look at each situation, weigh up the pros and cons and see how they fit in with your needs.

Extremely well put - a good warning to the 'get rich quick' posts we get on this subject.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

I live in Germany and bought in Croatia.

Even though the boat was only €34K (1999 Bav36) there was a SIGNIFICANT amount of travel involved to find it, haggle, view and survey - this all mounts up.

Then the original boat got destroyed before I took delivery so it was back to square one again with survey, travel etc. (original was an ex-charter boat in its last season.)

You are at the mercy of local surveyers and brokers so you have limited choice and it all has to be conducted at a distance, often with a language/culture barrier - (mobile phone bills alone were a few hundred euros.)

I did spend €200 on a return flight to view a 'bargain that was ready for the season' - needless to say, I wasted €200. Berthing, storage, delivery to the intended cruising ground are also not insignificant.

I've now got the boat I wanted, where I want it, but spent probably 10% of the value on the process of buying at a distance - (Adding up travel, accomodation, foreign fees, food, surveys, flights, car hire etc.)

I still have a VAT bill to come (next year) but at least the boat has a CE mark and Lloyds 100A certification - so I don't have those issues on EU import. I also bought it where I intend to use it.

It probably did work out cheaper in the end, but it was a depressing experience at times.

Now really looking forward to the summer

 

[Ben Dockrell 22]

It must have gut wrenching to lose your original boat i am sorry to hear that

Though on a more positive note thats one cool boat you have thier, and my thanks for your explanation and background on the processes

 

[TQA]

Florida is one of the good places to look. Lots of boats and many belong to owners who are 'motivated sellers'.

Also there are all the supply and service support operations around.

You have a limited time to get the boat out of Florida before the sales tax requirement kicks in but I know of people who reregistered their boats on the SSR and so thought they disappeared off the tax radar. It seemed to work.

I finished up buying in the USVI but had half a dozen other possible boats all of which would have done.

But I REALLY like my Explorer 44.

 

[Tranona]

You have a limited time to get the boat out of Florida before the sales tax requirement kicks in but I know of people who reregistered their boats on the SSR and so thought they disappeared off the tax radar. It seemed to work.

Registration per se is completely irrelevant as far as importing a boat into the EU is concerned. VAT is not a tax on boats, but on a transaction, and bringing a boat (or any other asset) into the EU is a "chargeable event" and therefore triggers a Tax liability of 20% (give or take depending on the EU state) of the value, unless it qualifies for one of the (limited) exemptions. In addition the boat has to meet the requirements of the RCd unless it is already exempt, which broadly only applies if it was built in the EEA prior to 1998 or was certified after 1998. Most US boats (or boats built in, say the Far East for sale in the US) are not certified.

So, as I said earlier, if you intend using the boat outside the EU there may be bargains to be had, but as soon as you want to import it into the EU (or Australia and New Zealand) you will find problems and additional costs.