Why not a Bayliner?

[Guest]

I've followed this forum for a while and read the many derrogatory remarks and jokes aimed at "Binliners" so, as a novice, ruled it off my shopping list for a 30 footer.
Imagine my surprise when at SBS I viewed the Gobbi, Searay, Sealine, Fairline, Doral, Bavaria, Cranchi, Fourwinns and Maxum equivalents and found that the Bayliner Cierra Sunbridge 3055 won hands down, not just on price but appearance too.
From the outside she looked very sleek, the cockpit is spacious with a double helm seat, however it is down below that she really appealed with so much apparent space in the broad 11ft beam with huge forward berth, seperate convertible roomy dinnette, good sized head and spacious aft cabin. AND it comes fully loaded so the price you see is the price you pay - unlike the competition!
It also carries a 5 yr hull warranty so presumeably is structually sound.

So, Forum, please enlighten me, what am I missing? Your welcome to be cruel with your jests but what I really seek is your wisdom or I could make an expensive mistake.
As I intend to use it to holiday in the Med for three week periods a few times a year and weekends throughout the season the extra space is what appeals. It can only be matched by the competitions 34 footers so for the equivialent price I'd need to go for a ten year old used Targa 34 or such. Surely a new Bayliner would be prefferable?
So, why not a Bayliner?

 

[DepSol]

1 USD 1.44 to the GBP
2 French Franc 10.44 to the GBP
3 Jeanneau / Beneteau craftmanship 10 times better than Bayliner
4 Get yourself a nice diesel option
5 Pick it up yourself and visit the factory to see how strongly they are built
6 Good range

Why go American? Go European I say.

Try Sea Ventures

 

[byron]

Nothing wrong with a Bayliner it just so happened they became the butt of a few people here. They are excellent value for money and I would sooner have one than some British boats I can think of.

©2001
www.education-jobs.co.uk
www.advertising.mcmail.com

 

[Guest]

Thanks but looked at these. Wife hates flybridge so Antares and Prestige ruled out. That leaves Ombrine which is not "sporty" enough and too similiar inside to sailboat - which she's bored of spending all day in, zig-zagging and rolling around in, to go somewhere we could have driven in half an hour. Thus the need for a cruiser. Oh and the Jeanneu Leader 805 sporty but too small - shame they don't do bigger.

 

[ChrisP]

My own guide to the boating market is to look at the second hand market. Look at all the similar craft and then look at the ages that they come on to the market. If they come up for sale at less than 3 years old then with the odd exception, the owner is dissatisfied with his purchase. If there are alot of newish ones on the market then there is a lot of dissatisfied owners and hence a possible problem with the boat or its design or maybe it just falls short of the competition. The rule seems to hold out so far look at the Sealine's, Bayliner's and Searay's in the ads and then compare it with the Brooms & Sunseekers etc. Work it out for yourself.

 

[adrianm]

Beware of the wife hating flybridges!

My wife refused point blank to even go on board a boat with a flybridge, now with one season under her belt we've got a new boat under build with, you've guessed it, a whopping great flybridge.

 

[longjohnsilver]

IMHO there's nothing much wrong with Bayliners, a friend of mine has had a Sierra suncbridge for about 8 years and is still pleased with it. Also it still looks good cos he's always cleaning it. He has a large petrol engine and now finds it expensive to go out and is looking to convert to diesel.

The one area I would check is the overall finish and standard of equipment and the fitting of the equipment. From what I have seen in the past this often leaves a fair bit to be desired and can quickly cause aggravation.

Let us know how you get on.

 

[KevL]

This is only my opinion and being a newdee myself I’m probably not the best qualified to answer he question BUT…. About 2 months ago I bought a second hand 1990 Bayliner 2556 Flybridge even after I had heard the japes and digs about Bayliners so why did I do it and why did I choose a Flybridge model.

Why a Bayliner is quite simple, you see while there were plenty of people ready to say Bayliners are rubbish when I asked them why they couldn’t give me an answer, I got the feeling it was just a fashionable thing to do. So like you I decided that I would look at all the types of boats I could afford and see which offered me the best value for money. I looked at Princess, Sea Ray, Chaparral, Cruisers Int., et al but I was faced with either a 22 footer which didn’t have the space I needed or a 20+ year old boat which needed a refit. Then I looked at Bayliner 2655, 2755, 2855 Sunbridges and all of a sudden I could afford a tidy boat around 10 years old.

Why a flybridge? Well the only problem with the Sunbridge is that they were a bit short on headroom and the cabins were a bit short on window area which is a trait of all the “Sunbridge” style cruisers about. Then we happened across a 2556 Flybridge, all of a sudden I could afford a boat that had comparable living space to a 2855 with big windows making the cabin light and roomy and plenty of headroom. The cabin on flybridge cruisers is a bigger percentage of the boat length because there isn’t the need for a helm and sun loungers at the rear. Also if the weather happens to turn nasty while I’m out I can nip inside and pilot from the comfort of the downstairs bridge.

Was this the right thing to do? Well time will tell but at the moment my wife and I are very pleased with our purchase. As I said, this is our first boat and to be honest if it hadn’t been for Bayliner boats I’m not sure we would have bought one due to the cost. Frankly I’m not worried about the japes, you pays your money and you takes your chances, if others want to look down their noses then fine, but there is good and bad in all boats and at the end of the day I’m happy and isn’t that what it’s all about?

Good luck what ever you decide to buy.

Kev

PS Before Subaru started winning rallies would you have even considered one a half decent car?

 

[Guest]

Re: Where in the med?

The name is unfortunate. But apart from that, the quality of fittings, the design and the engineering is not great. Mainly for this reason the resale values aren't great either - even your own short monitoring of the BB has shown that they aren't all hankering after one of these.

I would strongly recommend buying the boat in the med, and keeping it year one in the same marina -then they can attend any warranty issues. Depreciation is easily the biggest cost, unless you keep the boat for 8+ years. It will gobble fuel (they all do) so having diesels is the biggest thing that you can't really change without massive outlay. Worth having a look at Italian boats and at Yank boats but down there for prices, not here.

Where will you keep it? You'll need aircon for anywhere other than South of France - something at which the yanks are actually quite good. If you like the value, and are fine about the style, a near-new boat a year old or so would be worth a close look. There are loads. I'd start 20% under asking.

 

[BarryD]

KevL - I think the Bayliners looks good and seem to have a good purchase price, esp. in the sub £25K market - where I am. Large petrol engines and fuel burn are a concern but that can be managed, as it becomes an operating cost - and if it turns out that this is where you want to put all your money, then you can easily look to upgrade later or maybe go the LPG route.

If I find a Bayliner I like, at the right price then that's where the starting boating party takes place.

I too like the flybridges but with a 3yr old the ladder would be a worry.

Enjoy the cruising,

Barry

Barry D.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Bayliner's poor reputation dates back to when these boats first came into the UK (25 years ago?). They were very much built to a price and it showed; many of the earlier hulls suffered from osmosis after a few years and thats why Bayliner introduced the 5yr hull warranty. The quality has improved and for sure a Bayliner offers the most bang for your buck in terms of volume and equipment and they're one of the biggest boatbuilders in the world so I'm sure they've got thousands of happy customers. But the reputation has stuck and it's a case of cheapest ain't necessarily the best value.
On a new v new basis a Bayliner will depreciate faster than any of the other boats you've mentioned and comparing a new Bayliner against a secondhand Fairline is a complete no brainer. You could buy a good secondhand Fairline (or any other good make) and sell it in 3 yrs for nearly as much as you paid for it but the new Bayliner would lose you thousands maybe tens of thousands
If you gotta have a brand new boat and you've got cash to burn on depreciation then buy whatever you fancy. A Bayliner wont let you down, it wont break up the first time you hit a wave and it probably wont be less reliable than any other make but can you afford the depreciation?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Kev, you've probably made a good decision because somebody else has taken the initial hit on depreciation but Cman is talking about buying new and that makes less sense. There's nothing inherently wrong with Bayliners; good luck and enjoy it

 

[KevB]

I think the reason you find a fair few newish bayliners for sale compared to your Sunseeker/Fairline is the owner of the Bayliner doesn't have to worry so much about his initial investment as it was so much less then the others. Sunseeker/Fairline owners need to justify paying the extra therefore must keep the boat longer. Also Bayliners are more often than not the entry into boating due to their affordable price. Many people new to boating do not know what they need untill they have tried it, they buy their first boat (often a Bayliner), after a year they decide they need longer/faster/wider/higher/diesel/petrol/1 cabin/5 cabin/single engine/double engine/fly bridge/sports cruiser etc, thus more newish Bayliners on the market and not due to quality but qauantity/affordability.

 

[Guest]

No reason. They had, as has been stated, a reputation 15 years ago for building very lightweight (read flimsy) hulls, hence the Binliner moniker. That was all long ago.

They are now part of the same company that produces Sea Ray, Maxum, and now even Sealine. All the US boats are built out of the same parts bin, so they're all Mercruiser powered, all have the same electrics, same cupboards, same door handles, same canopies etc etc.

So, the quality control is very good, the initial depreciation is huge (but the depreciation can be fierce on any new boat), the running costs will be high if it's a petrol boat, and the resale on a used one will be no worse than anything else, probably (unless you bought new).

If the boat suits you, buy it, but do watch for the initial depreciation.

 

[jfm]

Bayliners are fine IMHO and probably dont deserve all the bad press they get. Some specifics though, all IMHO....

1. I thought the 3055 was petrol only, so when you say it is cheaper than the others you mention are you comparing like with like?

2. The builder is reputable. They're part of Brunswick who own not only the companies that GW mentioned but also Mercury/Mercruiser/Mariner, several marine component companies, etc.

3. It's a fact that resale isn't strong. Part of that is because of petrol engines, but also styling. Styling is very subjective but they are kind of US looking, and over here Euro styling is preferred.

4. Others have applauded Benny/Jenny build qwality but axshully there are cases of beneteau ombrines coming unstuck around bulkheads including the one MBY tested. I would expect Bayliner not to fall apart. The ombrines are nice though, interieurs by M. Starck himself, you could persuade yourself that you're staying at Mondrain/Royalton

Good luck though. BTW, when comparing value/prices I'm often suspicious about REAL prices, which you dont discover till you get close to signing up. Are Bayliners sold at list or discounted?

JFM

 

[Scubadoo]

I think your judgement is flawed....in Sealine's case, is it not that people tend to upgrade more often with another Sealine, rather than as you put it dissatisfied owners! Sealine seem to be making more profit than any other UK boat builder and selling allot more. As for Brooms, there are not so many sold in the first place becuase of their very high price - related to very high quailty and limited range(in sizes). There are always allot of Sunseekers for sale usually quite cheap - why is that?

Generally I can see nothing wrong with Bayliners, although you can see corners cut when in the cabin areas, e.g a bit of felt with velcro to cover screws! But that does not mean any of the others are much better.

RM.

 

[jfm]

Re: Sealine profits?

Richard, as a matter of interest what is your basis for saying Sealine make more profit than other UK boat builders?

JFM

 

[Scubadoo]

Re: Sealine profits?

Hi,

I read somewhere the profits from each of the boat builders, Sealine, Sunseeker, Broom etc. It showed (if I remember correctly) the overheads and profit, Sealine was clearly ahead by a few £Million compared to some. But none of them were that impressive - I think the max profit was under £20 mil.

Again I could have got some of that wrong(or all), but being a Sealine owner I remember being surprised how good Sealine figures were to others.

RM.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Re: Sealine profits?

Certainly, Gerard Wainright and his co-shareholders must be laughing all the way to the bank right now. MBO 3 years ago and then sell to the Americans for a huge profit just before a recession. Fair play to them but says a lot about British Industry

 

[mike_kolling]

Only thing I would say is as with any sports boat, try a test of attempting to get from the cockpit to the front deck via the side decks.
Imagine doing this outside St katherines when you have to go out to put the fenders out in a swell and your wife refuses.
Decks would be good here!
(As an ex-owner of a Sealine, I have been there and now own a Freeman)