Why is it so expensive to replace a keel-band?

[dancrane]

It's not only the rarer, smart-looking metals. The Pinnell & Bax page has slender brass keel-band at £27 per meter, but even the plastic variety is £9 per meter...

...and for what, exactly? A half-inch wide strip of plastic?

Actually I'm not especially fussed about the price, as long as I can sort out the damage to my old keel-band without a cock-up. Parts of mine are fine, but there's damage forward of the centreboard case and several inches have just dropped off.

If my use of the boat means she'll be prone to making some hard and sudden landfalls, is a thicker, chunkier section better, as offering more resistance to impact?

I'm guessing it'll be best to unscrew all of the broken band and replace it with one new piece (of a cheap material, necessarily), rather than leave okay-bits of the existing metal band in place.

Any idea how they'll mail three meters of the stuff? I get the feeling it doesn't bend very easily.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

First one I came up with offers it at £20 including P&P http://www.mainmarine.co.uk/strip.html

 

[VicS]

Any idea how they'll mail three meters of the stuff? I get the feeling it doesn't bend very easily.

Probably in 1.5 metre lengths by post, or by courier, at extra cost, for 3 metre lengths.

 

[NormanS]

Does it have to be half-round? You can get 12mm x 3mm stainless flat for less than £6/m. I've had 3m lengths of various small sections sent from Metals4u. They just tape it to a length of wood, and wrap it up.

 

[simonfraser]

They posted my seemingly unbendable sail rods in big loops, surprised they did not break, but popped out straight no problem.

 

[Lakesailor]

I used some 1" flat strip aluminium for a keel band on a tender. Cheap and durable, but it "gripped" the shale landing and was difficult to drag the boat on. Forward of the centreboard casing a bit of flat strip shouldn't pose a problem. But maybe brass or copper?

 

[prv]

You're paying the "boat tax" - unless there's something special about "keel band" that makes it different from standard brass or stainless strip, don't buy it by name from a marine supplier.

Pete

 

[Stork_III]

Classic Marine is much cheaper, but undrilled. http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/boat...&strPageHistory=search&numSearchStartRecord=1

 

[PhillM]

Got some from The Chandlery Barge, last year. They keep 1.5m in stock. Worth calling the first but at least you can pick it up.

 

[vyv_cox]

Metals4U have 1/2" x 1/8" flat bar for £13.23 per metre. Only problem is that it is 60/40 CZ121, which has limited cold ductility. For a keel band that will presumably need to be bent around the foot a 70/30 CZ105 would be less likely to crack on bending.

 

[dancrane]

Thanks for all these responses.

Stork_III, cheers, that Classic Marine page looks very encouraging price-wise...although they do like to blend their grams and inches, and it isn't entirely clear what length of metal I'll be buying for the quoted price...it just recommends how many screws are needed per foot. I guess it's £ per ft. But why is the 1/4" brass more expensive than the 1/2" brass?

I reckon the 3/8" will suit my boat...that's just under 10mm, and if it's undrilled, I'll have an excuse to buy a Makita. Not sure if that still represents superior value overall...

Regarding the question of drill-holes causing fragility in the band, does anyone have a view on how practical it would be to glue it on instead? Not trying to drift into Sikaflex vs. epoxy vs. other glues, but considering the routine impacts which a keel-band must suffer in ordinary launching and landing, is glue any less suited to the task than screws?

 

[dancrane]

Dear me, this old subject, emerging again, still only partly resolved. I was grateful last month for your replies, but not altogether wiser than when I'd started the thread...

...I notice that the broken keelband I have here, broke at the screw-holes. I'm thinking it's reasonable to assume that (especially with the slender 3/8" keelband) the holes substantially weakened the metal strip. So, just how serious a mistake would it be to use a powerful epoxy rather than screws? Has anybody tried glue rather than screws, on a keelband?

Secondly, if glue isn't sufficient on its own, and if holes must therefore be drilled, what is the disadvantage of using a wider section of band, say 12mm rather than 10mm? Will I be doing something awful to the slipperiness of my hull if I add thicker keelband?

If in a perfect world the chines meet under the bow with only a 10mm flat patch at the join, will a slightly wider, 12mm keelband cause a problem, or be a sensible (if untidy) solution?

I'm keen not to have to do the same repair job again in several months, after finding that expensive, perforated 10mm copper has again broken, when I might have used something tougher and cheaper, if not so neat and slick.

 

[FloydLyons]

I have no idea. Might be some different causes for it. Lets hope it turns out to be good.

 

[Daydream believer]

Why not buy some 15mm wide aluminium from B & Q which one can get in 1 metre lengths
Then the next solution would be not to keep hitting the shingle.
Sounds as if you are dragging the boat sideways on some pretty abrasive surfaces & might well be scoring the GRP hull as well

 

[Seajet]

Dan, try a good old fashioned ironmongers or maybe large DIY store.

For my grp tender - which gets scraped up and down a concrete slip - I was keen to avoid the leaks and breaks caused by screws so araldited on flat alloy strips at the keel and bilge runners; as long as the bottom is well prepared araldite is great.

I feathered the leading and trailing edges of the strips so as not to give a hard square edge to catch, no problems 10 years later.

I seem to remember the alloy strips were something to do with curtain tracks, the important thing is they had no screw holes.

 

[Lakesailor]

Dan. You are going over the same ground all over again. You have a habit of doing this.
This is the same question that you asked last time, couched in different terms.
Several of us mentioned flat aluminium strip last time. So it's a tad wider than the old band. Does that make any difference? You're not in class or going for the World Speed Record.
Keel bands always break at the screw holes, but ask yourself, how old is the broken keel band? How long do you think you'll keep this boat? It breaks because the metal becomes aged and is less malleable.
Just stick a new one on and forget.

 

[dancrane]

Several of us mentioned aluminium strip last time...Keel bands always break at screw holes...it breaks because the metal becomes aged and is less malleable...Just stick a new one on and forget.

Did you mean, stick, as in not screw? Sorry if you thought you'd made this clear earlier Lakey...not quite clear to me.

I was keen to avoid the leaks and breaks caused by screws...used flat alloy strips...as long as the bottom is well prepared, Araldite is great. I feathered the leading and trailing edges of the strips so as not to give a hard square edge to catch, no problems 10 years later...the important thing is they had no screw holes.

Thanks Andy, that's what I needed to hear. I'll try to manage without screw holes - when the last section of keelband dropped out, quite a lot of water drained out of the screw hole too. I expect the GRP Mk2 Osprey's keel-line is something tubular, to which the keelband was screwed, so when a bit of banding fell off, it left a hole in the structural tubing.

So...I'll buy cheap non-ferrous DIY-store metal in a profile which is slightly larger than the very slender original...and hopefully not a totally square-profiled strip...and I'll remove all the old keelband and smooth-off the marks it leaves, fill the old screw-holes and get busy with the Araldite...or any other really tough glue? I'm no longer a Sikaflex fan - it seems seriously overpriced and vague about its exact use, and 292 isn't very easy to find - and plenty of people seem to rate other, cheaper names higher. Any suggestions?

 

[Kelpie]

A lot of people rate CT1 higher than sika. I've not used it myself. In any case, given the surface area you are working with I think you want something stickier than what is essentially a sealant rather than a glue. Try the araldite.

Also, lack of a keel band shouldn't stop you from sailing... Just don't bump into anything

 

[dancrane]

Try the araldite. Also, lack of a keel band shouldn't stop you from sailing... Just don't bump into anything

Hmm...Rob, try to imagine you're landing your Wayfarer, singlehanded, arriving on a fairly steep concrete slipway where there's a dependable, brisk onshore breeze...

...now, between jumping out, going to find your trolley, returning and wrestling the boat onto its wheels, how often would you reckon to get her up without running her hard ashore?

My hat's off, if you could manage without a keel-band. I reckon my tired old undefended GRP keel-line would be badly pitted even after a couple of haul-outs.

Regarding Araldite...there seem to be quite a few different products to choose from, with different abilities. Is Araldite epoxy? I Googled 'marine epoxy glue'...no shortage of options.

 

[Lakesailor]

Did you mean, stick, as in not screw? Sorry if you thought you'd made this clear earlier Lakey...not quite clear to me.

I'd have thought the message in my post would have encouraged you to screw it on. Still, I apologise if it wasn't clear.
Use screws. It's the default fix.