why electrical cables aren't installed in pipes?

VicS said:
Paul Rainbow mentions ISO 13297, which is the standard for low voltage AC installations in small craft. The current edition is, I believe, 2014 but this is now under review

( 240 volts is low voltage in electrician speak)

There is also a standard for extra low voltage DC installations ( 12 and 24 volts = extra low voltage) ISO 10133:2017.

Anyone rewiring a boat would do well to be familiar with these two standards ....... (Documents that ought to be freely available by which are unfortunately an arm and a leg to purchase)
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At £170 for ISO 10133:2017, there won't be too many of these being bought.
 
I've used mini trunking with clip on cap for containing wiring on small boats usually attached with 'no more nails'.
This allows rapid access to the wiring in an emergency (or not) which closed conduit doesn't.
As far as tinned cable goes, I only use it for external and mast wiring on economy grounds. I agree it would probably be better but provided the interior of the boat is dry, it's not caused any problems.
 
alexlago said:
I'm renewing the electricity network of my old boat, and noticed that there is absolutely no electrical cables going through a pipe, like it is the case for house networks...I've asked other boat owners, and it seems to be the case for every one of them...
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What benefit would putting them through a pipe have?
 
Sandy said:
What benefit would putting them through a pipe have?
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When I rewired my boat I put a length of spiral reinforced plastic hose (left over from something) between the battery compartment and the engine compartment, which is where almost all the wires go to. It makes it nice and easy to add new wires (though the hose is getting a bit full now) and keeps the two lockers through which it passes neatly free of a great bundle of wires.

All the mast wiring goes through a conduit moulded in by the builders.
 
All our wiring runs behind various headlinings and sections of interior trim. Conduit would just make things harder as you would have to remove the headlining and then open the conduit - twice as much effort.

In many places there are dedicated lightweight battens to which the wires are individually nailed with cable clips. This seems like a good solution to me.
 
AngusMcDoon said:
Dragonfly trimaran cables are in pipes as well. There are pipes running the full length of the hull at two levels, and even in sections where they are empty the builder installed mousing lines so that it's easy to pull through new cables at a later date.
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Same on my Beneteau
 
Sandy said:
What benefit would putting them through a pipe have?
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Protection of cables against moisture, impact and shafing.
Protection against electric shock.
Pipes prevent direct contact between cables, and thus limit fire hazard (first major cause of boat destruction).
Easier to change or remove the cable if needed. (there was about 50m of unused cables let in my boat by previous owners...).
 
The Albin Ballad has it's lighting cables (nav and cabin) running through conduit in the deck core. I plan on glassing in some GRP tube to run the instrument cables (antennas, transducers, power) through storage/locker areas to neaten up the instalation and protect the cables from getting pulled/damaged when I start the rewire.
 
PaulRainbow said:
The reason you couldn't find any is because there aren't any. There are regulations that cover shoreside installations and there is an ISO that covers new boats, but that's it. Anyone can fiddle around with his 12v or 240v to his hearts content.
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I think quite a few people are confusing standards and regulations. Not you, I hasten to add.
 
alexlago said:
Protection of cables against moisture, impact and shafing.
Protection against electric shock.
Pipes prevent direct contact between cables, and thus limit fire hazard (first major cause of boat destruction).
Easier to change or remove the cable if needed. (there was about 50m of unused cables let in my boat by previous owners...).
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I am sorry if this sounds negative, but I am not convinced with your arguments, I am only an engineer.

Congratulates on only pulling out 50m of unused cable from your boat, in my latest boat there has been well over 300m. A lot of previous owners were keen to add new kit but not so keen to remove the old wiring! I'd love to meet the individual who put solid copper wiring to the fridge. Oh, and none of the cable I've removed was tinned!
 
Not to be too smart

But I have got my "Requirements for Electrical Installations" on my knee. The IET Wiring Regulations cover a broad range of mains electricity installation and not just Households. Just as there is a specific section for many specialised installations, from Medical Locations to Exhibitions, there is a specific section on Marinas and Similar locations. As mentioned this is more about shore power, than boat electrics. Regards
 
I had a look and found "The Boat Safety Scheme" but this is only for canals and the such like [https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/]

Anyway, they have a The Boat Safety Scheme Essential Guide and chapter 3 deals with Electrical installations

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/164496/bss guide chap3.pdf

Section 3.2 deals with cables

There is a requirement to check cables for damage, where seen, while there is no guidance about running cable through pipes they do mention conduits. Personally, I would consider pipes stop the inspection of cable for damage; I like to see the entire wire run and inspect it along its length.

It would be interesting to read the ‘Code of Practice for Electrical & Electronic Installations in Small Craft’ by the British Marine Federation and the underling ISO 10133 to see what that states, but I suspect it does not say anything about piping. (I am currently part of a team rewriting an ISO, not wiring, and understand the language they use.)

If anybody knows a BSS examiner it would be interesting to hear their comments on the subject.
 
Sandy said:
It would be interesting to read the ‘Code of Practice for Electrical & Electronic Installations in Small Craft’ by the British Marine Federation and the underling ISO 10133 to see what that states, but I suspect it does not say anything about piping. (I am currently part of a team rewriting an ISO, not wiring, and understand the language they use.)
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See post #14 Sandy. It's the earlier ISO, but shouldn't differ too much from the new one.
 
PaulRainbow said:
See post #14 Sandy. It's the earlier ISO, but shouldn't differ too much from the new one.
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Interesting, I have a habit of reading and interpreting things as they are written. My take on ISO 13297 is talking about where there is a mix of AC and DC in close proximity.

Where are is a BSS inspector when you want one!

I'll try and see if I have access to the standard online at work after hours and take a look at the document.
 
Sandy said:
Interesting, I have a habit of reading and interpreting things as they are written. My take on ISO 13297 is talking about where there is a mix of AC and DC in close proximity.

Where are is a BSS inspector when you want one!

I'll try and see if I have access to the standard online at work after hours and take a look at the document.
Click to expand...

ISO 13297 only deals with AC on the boat Sandy.

This International Standard specifies the requirements for the design, construction and installation of low-voltage alternating current electrical systems which operate at nominal
voltages of less than 250 V single phase on small
craft of hull length up to 24 m.
Click to expand...

ISO 10133 deals with the 12v systems.
 
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