why electrical cables aren't installed in pipes?

[alexlago]

hello,

I'm renewing the electricity network of my old boat, and noticed that there is absolutely no electrical cables going through a pipe, like it is the case for house networks...I've asked other boat owners, and it seems to be the case for every one of them...

Why is that??

 

[Laysula]

Penny pinching.

 

[Keith-i]

Whilst unlikely to be the reason, being enclosed can also derate the cable’s capacity. Also, they don’t get plastered in and totally fixed in place.

 

[dgadee]

My Dehler has. Unfortunately they are too small to add all the wiring a modern boat needs (e.g. windlass).

 

[cpedw]

My Dehler has. Unfortunately they are too small to add all the wiring a modern boat needs (e.g. windlass).

So does my Nordship - at least some of them. Others are in clip-top trunking and still others are fixed with cable ties. So far I haven't overfilled a pipe but some of the trunking is bulging.

Derek

 

[Rafiki]

They are in pipes bonded to the length of the hull in my Westerly. Unfortunately they are also held together and wrapped in insulating tape of some sort which means that single wires cannot be removed when they become redundant consequently as items are replaced/ the wiring changed the conduit/pipe becomes completely clogged. It would have been better to have used proper conduit with a snap-on front.

 

[prv]

And, for what it’s worth, there isn’t any wiring installed in “pipes” in my house.

Pete

 

[bigwow]

And, for what it’s worth, there isn’t any wiring installed in “pipes” in my house.

Pete

All wiring in my house is in pipes and very handy they were too when we rewired.

 

[prv]

All wiring in my house is in pipes and very handy they were too when we rewired.

I think conduit is fairly unusual in a domestic setting in the UK, except the odd garage or similar space using surface-mount metal-clad hardware. At best you'll get capping installed over the chases, but what I've seen in my house was all plastered straight in.

Pete

 

[AngusMcDoon]

My Dehler has. Unfortunately they are too small to add all the wiring a modern boat needs (e.g. windlass).

Dragonfly trimaran cables are in pipes as well. There are pipes running the full length of the hull at two levels, and even in sections where they are empty the builder installed mousing lines so that it's easy to pull through new cables at a later date.

 

[elton]

I think I'm correct in my belief that wiring should conform to the IEEE "18th Edition" regulations for wiring. So conduit or trunking, or armoured should be used where the regulations apply. None of this is relevant to a boat owner installing electrics on their own boat, except that the insurer might object in the event of a fire.

 

[prv]

I think I'm correct in my belief that wiring should conform to the IEEE "18th Edition" regulations for wiring.

Genuine question - does this apply to 12v wiring on boats? If so, does it say much about it except (presumably) not running it in the same conduit as 240v?

Pete

 

[PaulRainbow]

I think I'm correct in my belief that wiring should conform to the IEEE "18th Edition" regulations for wiring. So conduit or trunking, or armoured should be used where the regulations apply. None of this is relevant to a boat owner installing electrics on their own boat, except that the insurer might object in the event of a fire.

That isn't feasible, 18th edition regs do not and cannot apply to a boat, they are domestic regulations. There are no such regulations for an owner installing electrics to a boat.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Genuine question - does this apply to 12v wiring on boats? If so, does it say much about it except (presumably) not running it in the same conduit as 240v?

Pete

Absolutely not !

For new boats ISO13297 states :

11.3 An a.c. circuit shall not be contained in the same wiring system as a d.c. circuit, unless
one of the following
methods of separation is used.


a) For a multicore cable or cord, the cores of the a.c. circuit are separated from the cores of
the d.c. circuit by an earthed metal screen of equivalent current-carrying capacity to that of the
largest core of the a.c. circuit.


b) The cables are insulated for their system voltage and installed in a separate compartment of
a cable ducting or trunking system.


c) The cables are installed on a tray or ladder where physical separation is provided by a
partition.


d) A separate conduit, sheathing or trunking system is used.
e) The a.c and d.c. conductors are fixed directly to a surface and separated by at least 100 mm.

 

[elton]

That isn't feasible, 18th edition regs do not and cannot apply to a boat, they are domestic regulations. There are no such regulations for an owner installing electrics to a boat.

I can assure you there is a section detailing regulations for boats and caravans. I've got the 17th Editions, and I recall the training about boats.

 

[LadyInBed]

My Dehler has. Unfortunately they are too small to add all the wiring a modern boat needs (e.g. windlass).

Same here on my home completed Colvic Countess.
When I've added wires I used mini Trunking.

 

[escapism]

hello,

I'm renewing the electricity network of my old boat, and noticed that there is absolutely no electrical cables going through a pipe, like it is the case for house networks...I've asked other boat owners, and it seems to be the case for every one of them...

Why is that??

No, you won't find the cables in pipes, more probably held by nibs of glassfibre behind carpentry or headlinings. If its an old boat you'll also probably find that it was not installed with tinned cable so you'll find black corrosion wicked along the length of most wires. When renewing, use tinned cable and fit trunking where needed, especially to separate mains cable from 12V. Um, and add fuses and stuff.

 

[William_H]

The real problem as to why builders did not fit wiring in conduit or trunks is simply that they never expected the boats to last as long as they do. ie they though the hull would be thrown away before the wiring failed from corrosion etc. ol'will

 

[VicS]

Paul Rainbow mentions ISO 13297, which is the standard for low voltage AC installations in small craft. The current edition is, I believe, 2014 but this is now under review

( 240 volts is low voltage in electrician speak)

There is also a standard for extra low voltage DC installations ( 12 and 24 volts = extra low voltage) ISO 10133:2017.

Anyone rewiring a boat would do well to be familiar with these two standards ....... (Documents that ought to be freely available by which are unfortunately an arm and a leg to purchase)

 

[PaulRainbow]

I can assure you there is a section detailing regulations for boats and caravans. I've got the 17th Editions, and I recall the training about boats.

I'd be very interested to hear about any regulations that apply to carrying out electrical work on boats. Perhaps you could post some links to the relevant regs ?