Why don't you like Mobo's?

[Firefly625]

How odd. Still hope you reported him.

Had a case of fairly inconsiderate wash on Saturday. People on the foredeck doing lassoo/ mooring practice on the mid stream Hamble pontoons at warsash. A boat came up the non preferred channel at just the wrong speed, less than a boat length from us and kicking up what was i reckon the biggest possible wash for the boat the way he was digging his stern. We all saw it and held on, but we were whacked quite heavily against the pontoon. He slowed when I yelled at him obviously knowing he was wrong. The boat was bringing back the race marks for the royal southern yacht club and proudly displayed their name. Shame on them. Have to say the RAF club launch is often rather "wakey" too. So it's alright for sailors to make wash when they're in a mobo?

A little while ago I had a few people on board and I was making my way out of the Hamble and was singled out by Hamble HM told to slow down as I was causing excess wake... To be honest it was the first time I have been "told off" by Hamble HM as I NEVER exceed the 6 knot limit & have been in the Hamble (apart from 18months) since Knox-Johnson owned Mercury Marina...., so was a little aghast. At this point they were practically alongside so I did have the opportunity to point out that I was only just doing 5 knots. However the HM gesticulated at my wash which I do admit because of the fact I had 5 adults sitting at the stern it was greater than normal! So I did reduce speed down to a 4 knots which perhaps was the correct speed to ensure my wake didn't upset anyone...... However the absolutely perverse thing was during our brief conversation we were both overtaken by one of the Pink Hamble water taxi's making a huge wake and even made the HM stumble a little... yet he said nothing to the taxi. Now I was bemused by this and realsied immediately that there was one rule for working boats in the Hamble (Club launches included), and another for everyone else.

 

[prv]

To be honest it was the first time I have been "told off" by Hamble HM as I NEVER exceed the 6 knot limit

I've been told off by them while heading in in a small RIB with a faulty engine that wouldn't keep running at low enough revs to stay under the limit. We weren't making any significant wash though, and we only needed to get as far as the jetty by the Rising Sun.

Pete

 

[KellysEye]

>Best not dig that hole any deeper though.......

Since it seems nobody here has any experienced the appalling behaviour, that I have I explained in detail, I can't see why anybody would say I'm digging a hole. If I am I'm quite happy in it. Would you like to be rolled 20 degrees each way every ten minutes for months? Or have a Mobo put a breaking wave in your cockpit at drinks and snack times?

 

[Flying Penguin]

Would you like to be rolled 20 degrees each way every ten minutes for months? Or have a Mobo put a breaking wave in your cockpit at drinks and snack times?

No. It's not your dislike of motorboats that is hard to understand. It's the fact that you would leave a human being in mortal danger by virtue of his choice in boat that disgusts people.

If said motor boater had say, raped your wife and killed your child, then we could understand, sympathise even. Rolling about a lot and getting your G&T wet occasionally, whilst irritating and potentially occasionally dangerous, doesn't provide sufficient excuse to make people think of you as anything other than a lowlife...

Perspective my good fellow... Try not to live with the red mist 24/7



Jamie

 

[Elessar]

No. It's not your dislike of motorboats that is hard to understand. It's the fact that you would leave a human being in mortal danger by virtue of his choice in boat that disgusts people.

If said motor boater had say, raped your wife and killed your child, then we could understand, sympathise even. Rolling about a lot and getting your G&T wet occasionally, whilst irritating and potentially occasionally dangerous, doesn't provide sufficient excuse to make people think of you as anything other than a lowlife...

Perspective my good fellow... Try not to live with the red mist 24/7



Jamie

So right.
But worse, it isn't said motor boater, it's any motor boater in his rather sad world.
At least he can unite sailors and motor boaters against his views.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

Sorry, I seem to have posted the same thing twice - computer crashed and I did not realise the first post went off. The Orwell is not like the Soton water. If you are beating in a boat with 1.9m draft staying outside the channnel at all times is not practical, and at low water, not possible in places. Therefore, there is usually a mass of yachts beating across the channel and for a mobo to deconflict the easiest way in much of the river would be for them to stay just outside the channel. They never, ever do. Even the considerate ones will slow to a standstill in the channel and wait for a yacht to pass rather than venture outside the channel. On the other hand most yachts running against the tide will get as far out of the channel as they can.

That seems a bit tough on the MoBo. Channel's tend to shift around a bit at the best of times and it seems a bit harsh to expect a MoBo to risk his boat (which may not like taking the ground at all) because you want to have all the channel. It's fine if you know that the marked channel is 2m and that it always shelves gently outside the channel but it often requires local knowledge to know that.

 

[KellysEye]

>No. It's not your dislike of motorboats that is hard to understand. It's the fact that you would leave a human being in mortal danger by virtue of his choice in boat that disgusts people.

It's not based on somebodys choice of boat it's what the person does with it - any boat, including some moronic ship and fishing boat captains. eg. a ship wth a red port bow light, a red starboard bow light and a red stern light and a fishing boat that purposely rammed a yacht not once but twice.

I'm guessing you have never been long distance cruising. Many of them have the same attitude having experienced what I mentioned. Everyone to their their own really, if you want to help some total ars*****, as above, carry on.

 

[Slow_boat]

I have been long distance cruising, delivery skipper, yachtmaster and a RIB instructor. I have a fair bit of experience in various parts of the world.

I find it totally unacceptable and against the basic codes of seamanship and humanity to fail to assist another vessel in distress if it is possible to do so without endangering my own vessel or crew.

There is no sanction available for intent but I hope that should the situation ever occur you would have a re-think and basic humanity would prevail.

 

[Flying Penguin]

It's not based on somebodys choice of boat it's what the person does with it - any boat, including some moronic ship and fishing boat captains. eg. a ship wth a red port bow light, a red starboard bow light and a red stern light and a fishing boat that purposely rammed a yacht not once but twice.

That's either a flat out lie or you've changed your tune since your post on the 3rd of May when you said "I swore that if a Mobo was in trouble I would not go to help". I think most people would be happy for you to clarify your views, prove to the world that you aren't a complete sociopath, but the cynic in me thinks you're just squirming because you realise how much of a fool it makes you look.

I have no particular love for MoBo's, rather a healthy suspicion gained from a few encounters with those who are simply keen to "Essex it up", rather than share the water considerately with other users, but that doesn't translate to "all stinkies are scum", and certainly never to "I'll just leave him to die".

I'm guessing you have never been long distance cruising.

You are correct, I've never done long distance cruising. In fact I'd bet a considerable amount of money you have a vast amount more sailing experience than I. However this is not an experience question.

If travel broadens the mind, what must you have been like before going?

Many of them have the same attitude having experienced what I mentioned.

Human decency 101, thoughtless behaviour does not generally warrant leaving people to die. You really move in the wrong circles if that is true.

Leaving aside any specific boat that may have deliberately tried to sink you (not just not given a damn), if you can honestly say that you would, on seeing the bow of a sinking SunSeeker poking forlornly up from the water, the occupants clinging on to the rails or floating around in the debris, that you would motor on, then please do us all a favour and let us know your boat name, such that we can decide, according to our conscience, whether to bother should you ever have the misfortune to come to grief and require outside assistance.

Edit: I take it this is yours?

Everyone to their their own really, if you want to help some total ars*****, as above, carry on.

I, like most other people here, will continue to try to be a functioning member of the human race with at least a shred of common decency. You evidently have no interest at all in even attempting to do this. Everyone to their own really.

Regards,

Jamie

 

[jordanbasset]

That's either a flat out lie or you've changed your tune since your post on the 3rd of May when you said "I swore that if a Mobo was in trouble I would not go to help". I think most people would be happy for you to clarify your views, prove to the world that you aren't a complete sociopath, but the cynic in me thinks you're just squirming because you realise how much of a fool it makes you look.

I have no particular love for MoBo's, rather a healthy suspicion gained from a few encounters with those who are simply keen to "Essex it up", rather than share the water considerately with other users, but that doesn't translate to "all stinkies are scum", and certainly never to "I'll just leave him to die".



You are correct, I've never done long distance cruising. In fact I'd bet a considerable amount of money you have a vast amount more sailing experience than I. However this is not an experience question.

If travel broadens the mind, what must you have been like before going?



Human decency 101, thoughtless behaviour does not generally warrant leaving people to die. You really move in the wrong circles if that is true.

Leaving aside any specific boat that may have deliberately tried to sink you (not just not given a damn), if you can honestly say that you would, on seeing the bow of a sinking SunSeeker poking forlornly up from the water, the occupants clinging on to the rails or floating around in the debris, that you would motor on, then please do us all a favour and let us know your boat name, such that we can decide, according to our conscience, whether to bother should you ever have the misfortune to come to grief and require outside assistance.

Edit: I take it this is yours?



I, like most other people here, will continue to try to be a functioning member of the human race with at least a shred of common decency. You evidently have no interest at all in even attempting to do this. Everyone to their own really.

Regards,

Jamie

+1, do find such attitudes strange among fellow users of the sea

 

[colingr]

Well at least I know who to sink near

And if it helps, I'd go to the aid of anyone, even if they had just randomly tacked in front of me to deliberately cause confusion

(As one of the worlds most hated and cursed underclass)

 

[Flying Penguin]

(As one of the worlds most hated and cursed underclass)

Rowers?

 

[colingr]

Rowers?

Not that low - slightly above jet skiers I think (hope)

Or are they below rowers, I'm never sure.

 

[ricky_s]

Not that low - slightly above jet skiers I think (hope)

Or are they below rowers, I'm never sure.

If you ask KE, he would say below the waves is the best place!

 

[KellysEye]

>But worse, it isn't said motor boater, it's any motor boater in his rather sad world.

I get the impression that you and some others are misreading what I have said. I have not said that I wouldn't stop for all mobos or all boats or anything like that. I was very specific, I would not stop in two specific areas, the Olhau lagoons in Portugal and Spanish Waters in Curacao, where the Mobo's behaviour is appalling. I also said I wouldn't stop if I had seen a Mobo do the things I have mentioned.

>on seeing the bow of a sinking SunSeeker poking forlornly up from the water, the occupants clinging on to the rails or floating around in the debris, that you would motor on

No I wouldn't motor on I would stop and help provided he hadn't done the things I mentioned, as I said above. Please go back and read properly what I have said.

 

[ricky_s]

No I wouldn't motor on I would stop and help provided he hadn't done the things I mentioned, as I said above. Please go back and read properly what I have said.

I would just go away!

 

[Flying Penguin]

No I wouldn't motor on I would stop and help provided he hadn't done the things I mentioned, as I said above. Please go back and read properly what I have said.

Read alone, this would seem to be a case of you clarifying your point and brining yourself back into the fold of normal functioning human beings, but...

I was very specific, I would not stop in two specific areas, the Olhau lagoons in Portugal and Spanish Waters in Curacao, where the Mobo's behaviour is appalling.

So what you are saying is that if said SunSeeker was in the general vicinity of
Curacao, you'd leave them to die?

You then add this point:

I also said I wouldn't stop if I had seen a Mobo do the things I have mentioned.

Now the problem is, and why I suspect you have been rounded on, is that contrary to your assertions, you were rather unspecific. Let me remind you. (emphasis is mine)

Wash is the problem. Don't know much about the UK but in the seventeen countries we visited only in one did Mobos slow right down when passing through anchored yachts and that was Venezuela. The rest would go through with an enormous wake so you had to keep the boat stowed for ocean sailing, when at anchor, if Mobos were around.

They would also get their jetskis out and race close to boats with all the stink and noise it entails. Even worse some Mobos would turn sharply near a yacht's quarter and put a breaking wave into the yacht's cockpit. They only did it around drinks and snacks time when people were in the cockpit.

Now 1 & 2 are just thoughtless, "Essexing it up" if you will. I've seen wake and dodgy waterski races pretty much everywhere. 3 is potentially malicious, so being angry is understandable, depending on the circumstances.

However you do not clarify further and then utter the now infamous lines:(emphasis mine)

We reached the stage of hating Mobos to the extent I swore that if a Mobo was in trouble I would not go to help. The two worst countries for this are Portugal and Curacao. The only good news is we saw one MOBO on a reef in the USVI's and another hit a reef in Curacao. Two down, thousands to go.

You'll notice that to prevent any accusations of selective reading, your entire post from the 3rd is quoted here.

So by reading your post in conjunction with your post of the third, I'm still not sure which group of actions qualify as "doing the things you mention".

I'm left with the slightly disturbing conclusion that you, despite acting as a normal functioning member of society for most of the time, will act as a sociopath and leave motorboaters to die if they happen to be boating in a particular geographic region where you have an issue with the generally prevailing standards of seamanship?

Note I am not querying the lack of enthusiasm for helping those that are deliberately and maliciously dangerous, as I can quite understand that they have somewhat made their bed and must lie in it, but rather the general principle of "I object to the lack of seamanship in the region, therefore I will not stop to assist boats, even if I have had no prior encounter with them".

I suggest to prevent any further confusion and damage to your reputation, you re-state your position to clarify who exactly you would leave for dead.

Regards,

Jamie

 

[blueglass]

Read alone, this would seem to be a case of you clarifying your point and brining yourself back into the fold of normal functioning human beings, but...



So what you are saying is that if said SunSeeker was in the general vicinity of
Curacao, you'd leave them to die?

You then add this point:



Now the problem is, and why I suspect you have been rounded on, is that contrary to your assertions, you were rather unspecific. Let me remind you. (emphasis is mine)



Now 1 & 2 are just thoughtless, "Essexing it up" if you will. I've seen wake and dodgy waterski races pretty much everywhere. 3 is potentially malicious, so being angry is understandable, depending on the circumstances.

However you do not clarify further and then utter the now infamous lines:(emphasis mine)



You'll notice that to prevent any accusations of selective reading, your entire post from the 3rd is quoted here.

So by reading your post in conjunction with your post of the third, I'm still not sure which group of actions qualify as "doing the things you mention".

I'm left with the slightly disturbing conclusion that you, despite acting as a normal functioning member of society for most of the time, will act as a sociopath and leave motorboaters to die if they happen to be boating in a particular geographic region where you have an issue with the generally prevailing standards of seamanship?

Note I am not querying the lack of enthusiasm for helping those that are deliberately and maliciously dangerous, as I can quite understand that they have somewhat made their bed and must lie in it, but rather the general principle of "I object to the lack of seamanship in the region, therefore I will not stop to assist boats, even if I have had no prior encounter with them".

I suggest to prevent any further confusion and damage to your reputation, you re-state your position to clarify who exactly you would leave for dead.

Regards,

Jamie

what an excellent analysis - well put!

 

[KellysEye]

>So what you are saying is that if said SunSeeker was in the general vicinity of
Curacao, you'd leave them to die?

You are still not reading what I say. I did not say the above I was very specific Spanish Waters, Curacao.

>"I object to the lack of seamanship in the region, therefore I will not stop to assist boats, even if I have had no prior encounter with them".

I have no idea if they are good seamen, in the classic sense, or not. I do know they behave appallingly with no consideration for other boats.

>...I will not stop to assist boats, even if I have had no prior encounter with them"

I have not said that either, indeed I have said the opposite. Plase stop putting words in my mouth.

 

[Flying Penguin]

>So what you are saying is that if said SunSeeker was in the general vicinity of
Curacao, you'd leave them to die?

You are still not reading what I say. I did not say the above I was very specific Spanish Waters, Curacao.

My apologies

Let me re-phrase that.

So what you are saying is that if said SunSeeker was in Spanish Waters, Curacao, you'd leave them to die?

I have no idea if they are good seamen, in the classic sense, or not. I do know they behave appallingly with no consideration for other boats.

Consideration for other boats being a fairly fundamental element of seamanship. This is a side issue and whether you call it seamanship or level of consideration shown, the point still stands.

I have not said that either, indeed I have said the opposite. Plase stop putting words in my mouth.

I'm simply taking what you wrote and trying to piece together what you actually mean. If you wish to take back what was said and re-state your position in a manner which is unambiguous, please be my guest!

Oh and selective quoting of my posts to try make me look unreasonable isn't going to work That post did not imply that you did that as a blanket activity (you having partially clarified already), as you said, please stop putting words in my mouth.

As for saying the opposite: (emphasis mine)

I get the impression that you and some others are misreading what I have said. I have not said that I wouldn't stop for all mobos or all boats or anything like that. I was very specific, I would not stop in two specific areas, the Olhau lagoons in Portugal and Spanish Waters in Curacao, where the Mobo's behaviour is appalling. I also said I wouldn't stop if I had seen a Mobo do the things I have mentioned.

I'm not putting words in your mouth. You said you wouldn't stop in two specific areas. You also said you wouldn't stop for a MoBo if you had seen it behaving in a certain way. Your words. Not mine.

Now what is unclear is:

• What a MoBo would have to do to be considered blacklisted
• What possible justification is there for refusing to stop in two discrete areas where you dislike the seamanship (or consideration, whatever term you use)

I have explained as clearly as possible the reason for the confusion. You refuse to actually clarify, which suggests to me that you are simply unhappy at having your moral values questioned and are squirming because you don't like the fact that we are actually right in our assessment of you.

I suggest to prevent any further confusion and damage to your reputation, rather than raising red herrings and nit picking on definitions, you fully re-state your position to clarify who exactly you would leave for dead.

Regards,

Jamie