Why do some people just annoy others without trying - and it might be me?

[john_morris_uk]

So we are anchored in Dartmouth opposite the town quay. 6.6 metres of water and there's a 5 metre (approx) rise to come so I put out just over thirty metres of chain. We had anchored on the ebb and the boats were all lying nicely to their anchors with a NW wind blowing down the river at 15 plus knots. Now the flood is building nicely and all the boats have swung - except with the wind up their backsides all the boats are also sailing round their anchors and people are sticking their heads out of hatches as boats start to get near to each other.

There's an old wooden boat with pretty lines that we start to get very close to, and I keep an eye on things. Eventually it all gets too close and I realise that we are going to have to move as he was here first. Just as I come on deck, the owner sticks his head out. "How much chain have you got out?" he demands. I tell him - thirty metres. He says, "You need at least 40 metres here - its a spring tide." I refrain from telling him that I know its a spring tide thank you, and instead say, "Well we are only in 6.6 metres at the moment, and I think that thirty metres is probably enough - and anyway we are going to move - all the boats are sailing round their anchors and we will re-anchor where there's a bit more room. He then tells me that I have got to put a bucket out of the back of our boat to stop our swinging.

We moved - but what I can't explain is why this person - who may be a charming man in many ways - then looked at us for the next day with hatred and hostility. We didn't touch his boat, and I moved when it looked like it was getting too close, but we were beneath contempt as far as he was concerned.

I am trying not to believe that it was to do with him having an elderly wooden boat, no electrics of any sort in sight. No instruments, that I could see, no outboard - he rowed his tender ashore - all the sailing perhaps done in a purest sort of way, and him looking at our boat with its wind generator and dinghy on davits etc with contempt.

We try to be friendly with everyone, but because I didn't follow his orders (for that was how his suggestions came across) he was having none of it. I am still trying to work out how we so patently fell out with someone we'd hardly spoken to.

It takes all sorts I suppose. Just getting things off my chest...

 

[nimbusgb]

takes all types I suppose.

I loved the bit about 'we'd move because he was there first'

you ought to try mooring in the med with Italians about.

Got hemmed in by two fabulous 70 foot or so Italian registered yachts who arrived about 5 hours after I had settled in to a bay on anchor. They decided to run lines ashore. I thought It was possible that I might swing during the night and as the passed in the dinghy I said so. They said they were settled and were not going to move.

When they returned I hailed them and simply said ..... Those are beautifull new well maintained yachts with nice shiny blue paintwork. Mine has a 25 year old white gelcoat. Who's boat is going to come off 2nd best?

They moved the closer of the two boats.

 

[robertj]

Was he local, if so why not take his advice?
He was only trying to help, the bucket idea is sound practice and many old salts use it giving them a quieter anchorage in such conditions.
It's best to listen an try things as we don't know everything u know, others do have experience to pass on.
I expect he felt compelled to help a young novice yachty and maybe a bit peeved when this young whipper snapper didn't heed good well found advice, I doubt he dislikes your craft more than likely it's you or your attitude!!
If I can offer some advice, invite him aboard for a drink and chat listen and learn it goes along way to a fruitful sailing life you know! Failing that buy him a nice bottle of malt and give it go him before you depart.

Remember these old boys still sailing have seen it all!!!

 

[shmoo]

I think your annoyance was quite justified.

Unsolicited advice from those who do not know the full facts is very close to rudeness, in my view.

Also: "all the sailing perhaps done in a purest sort of way" - don't fall into the trap of equating old and technologically anachronistic with pure and classic. Sometimes they overlap, but one does not necessarily follow from the other.

 

[doug748]

The anchorage at Dartmouth is often like that at turn of tide.
Sounds like you met an old t-osser, being one myself I am well placed to judge. The bucket trick never works, at best it simply defers a decision, usually it does nothing. Best to ignore these types or thank them warmly for their observations.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Maybe he offered an opinion and was unhappy that you did not take up his advice and had done your own thing. Perhaps you are like him and have strong opinions, so you feel umbrage because he didn't appreciate your opinion.

I say this as an observation to comments you made with regards to StakPak. As you know our positions are opposite with regards the look. Yet on the original thread you responded quite sharply and in another you associated the position I took (on StakPaks) with taking a moral high ground. I thought it strange that one should equate taste in aesthetics with morals but concluded that something must be "rubbing you up the wrong way."

Reading your post on this thread has connotations of the emotions in the StakPak threads. I think you my be ex RN, not sure, but SOP in RN tends to condition one to think a certain way that what they are doing, for the right reasons, is correct, so you do it that way. I wonder if he too was ex RN?

I would tend to think that the acceptance, or not, of your actions is his concern only and you should not concern yourself with your perception of what he thinks about you. You may be surprised how wrong you are if you ever got the facts from him.

Anyway I enjoy your postings as its obvious that the comments are based on knowledge and experience.

Best Regards and Pleasant Sailing

 

[Lakesailor]

He was just a crotchety old sod.
I know a bloke who does a voluntary role and his rather old-fashioned values are just not in tune with modern customer relations.
However he justifies all his opinions (and as far as he is concerned they are hard and fast rules) by saying "No. You can't ask them to do that"
He can be a very pleasant bloke, but on any day you offer a contrary view he will take umbrage for the rest of the day.

 

[Robin]

Being of a parsimonious nature myself and preferring to anchor over paying over-egged visitor fees I can understand. Dartmouth however is one place where I prefer the mid-river visitor pontoons since they charge 50% of their rate anyway to anchor. The reason (and I know John Knows..) is that there are only two wind directions in the River Dart, 'up' or 'down' and therefore wind against strong tide is a dead certainty at some time and usually the most inconvenient one, like in the wee small hours or just after you went ashore. It even conspires to fool you when wind and tide should be together by switching from 'down' to 'up' wind as the sea breeze effect kicks in.

We have anchored in the pool in Dartmouth when arriving in the dark and all usual visitor berths filled, but finding a spot and predicting where existing boats have their anchors whilst they do their dancing is difficult! We have on occasion overnighted outside in the small bay just east of the entrance but in recent years on our way to Southern Brittany have cheated completely by arranging to lay alongside a very friendly forum members boat for which we are very grateful, but of course an option not available to all.

The bucket trick is but a temporary distraction to kid you into thinking the problem is solved, it isn't and it will just wait until you take your eye off the ball, or in this case the bucket, which will somehow develop a hydrodynamic profile to present minimum resistance to current flow.

Your friendly anchorman may of course just be one of those in wooden classics that look at any tupperware boat with disdain and are just waiting to witness their predicted cock-up.

 

[Sans Bateau]

Who ever gives you advice, it is only advice, the guy may well have had 70 years at sea, sailed around the world and forgotten more about sailing than you know. Or, he could have only a few years experience, anyone can buy an old boat and take on the appearance of an old salt, you just do not know how good his advice is.

Advice is advice, you are the skipper of your boat, you make the decisions, because you and only you bear the responsibility of the actions you take.

Anchored in the Dart eh? Lucky bu99er!

 

[Paul Norman]

I tend to refrain from offering advice, unless my boat is at risk. People have their own way of doing stuff, and I respect that.

Especially boat securing advice. You develop a method that works for you, your crew, your boat. And it will be different to mine!

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

I was in the Dart yesterday, tied at at the Haven marina, right at the end of the visitors pontoon, so pretty close to the anchored boats... if he's the boat I think, then he also glowered at me as I slipped Friday lunchtime... My conclusion at the time is that it was because I had the temerity to own a plastic boat... so you could well be right!

(now in Sutton Harbour which has super helpful and friendly staff... very impressed... and dramatically changed from when I sailed out of here in the 80's!)

 

[activesail]

Tolerance could be the key!

 

[GODOT]

Sorry John, I was merely trying to be helpful! However despite my age, I have excellent hearing and I did take umbtage to being referred to as a smeely old f@rt. I'm also suffering severely from piles and constipation at the moment which does give me a sort of pernament frown... not helped by the arthritis in my right wrist.


Fair winds

 

[Seven Spades]

(now in Sutton Harbour which has super helpful and friendly staff... very impressed... and dramatically changed from when I sailed out of here in the 80's!)

And the best heads I have seen outside of a hotel

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Second that.... Utter luxury!

 

[LONG_KEELER]

So we are anchored in Dartmouth opposite the town quay. 6.6 metres of water and there's a 5 metre (approx) rise to come so I put out just over thirty metres of chain. We had anchored on the ebb and the boats were all lying nicely to their anchors with a NW wind blowing down the river at 15 plus knots. Now the flood is building nicely and all the boats have swung - except with the wind up their backsides all the boats are also sailing round their anchors and people are sticking their heads out of hatches as boats start to get near to each other.

There's an old wooden boat with pretty lines that we start to get very close to, and I keep an eye on things. Eventually it all gets too close and I realise that we are going to have to move as he was here first. Just as I come on deck, the owner sticks his head out. "How much chain have you got out?" he demands. I tell him - thirty metres. He says, "You need at least 40 metres here - its a spring tide." I refrain from telling him that I know its a spring tide thank you, and instead say, "Well we are only in 6.6 metres at the moment, and I think that thirty metres is probably enough - and anyway we are going to move - all the boats are sailing round their anchors and we will re-anchor where there's a bit more room. He then tells me that I have got to put a bucket out of the back of our boat to stop our swinging.

We moved - but what I can't explain is why this person - who may be a charming man in many ways - then looked at us for the next day with hatred and hostility. We didn't touch his boat, and I moved when it looked like it was getting too close, but we were beneath contempt as far as he was concerned.

I am trying not to believe that it was to do with him having an elderly wooden boat, no electrics of any sort in sight. No instruments, that I could see, no outboard - he rowed his tender ashore - all the sailing perhaps done in a purest sort of way, and him looking at our boat with its wind generator and dinghy on davits etc with contempt.

We try to be friendly with everyone, but because I didn't follow his orders (for that was how his suggestions came across) he was having none of it. I am still trying to work out how we so patently fell out with someone we'd hardly spoken to.

It takes all sorts I suppose. Just getting things off my chest...

I now EXACTLY how you feel.

Thanks for sharing it with us.

The tragedy, is that if we are not careful, we can start type casting and start avoiding.

 

[Blue5]

Who ever gives you advice, it is only advice, the guy may well have had 70 years at sea, sailed around the world and forgotten more about sailing than you know. Or, he could have only a few years experience, anyone can buy an old boat and take on the appearance of an old salt, you just do not know how good his advice is.

So much like the advice you read on here


.

 

[oldfatgit]

I know I am the most wounderful, pleasant, kind and generous person on this world and so when somebody doesn't like me I know that they are wrong and I am right. Anybody who frowns at me is, therefore, not worthy of my scorn and, given the fact that they don't care about me, I refuse to let their mis-appriciation bother me. After all, I know how good the wine is that they are not going to be invited to share.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Sorry John, I was merely trying to be helpful! However despite my age, I have excellent hearing and I did take umbtage to being referred to as a smeely old f@rt. I'm also suffering severely from piles and constipation at the moment which does give me a sort of pernament frown... not helped by the arthritis in my right wrist.


Fair winds

Ha Ha - as I know that I said no such thing - and if you knew me you would know that I don't use such language.

Personally I would love to meet the grumpy so and so and find out how he ticks. The problem might be me after all, and I hope that I am big enough to know that I am not always right and that there are lots of ways of doing things - many of them equally successful and safe.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Maybe he offered an opinion and was unhappy that you did not take up his advice and had done your own thing. Perhaps you are like him and have strong opinions, so you feel umbrage because he didn't appreciate your opinion.

I say this as an observation to comments you made with regards to StakPak. As you know our positions are opposite with regards the look. Yet on the original thread you responded quite sharply and in another you associated the position I took (on StakPaks) with taking a moral high ground. I thought it strange that one should equate taste in aesthetics with morals but concluded that something must be "rubbing you up the wrong way."

Reading your post on this thread has connotations of the emotions in the StakPak threads. I think you my be ex RN, not sure, but SOP in RN tends to condition one to think a certain way that what they are doing, for the right reasons, is correct, so you do it that way. I wonder if he too was ex RN?

I would tend to think that the acceptance, or not, of your actions is his concern only and you should not concern yourself with your perception of what he thinks about you. You may be surprised how wrong you are if you ever got the facts from him.

Anyway I enjoy your postings as its obvious that the comments are based on knowledge and experience.

Best Regards and Pleasant Sailing

Well it just goes to show how wrong I can be - and how careful one must be when you put your thoughts into print (or into hyper-space of whatever the web is called?)

And there was me thinking that you were fairly hard over in your condemnation of the looks of a boat with Stak Paks (which I still think are fantastic for short handed sailing, especially as I am not a big fan of in-mast reefing.)

Perhaps moral high ground is the wrong term when it comes to aesthetics - and we are all entitled to our own opinion as to what makes a boat look good.

I am still serving RN by the way. At one level I try not to worry too much about what people think about me as there lies a path to misery and unhappiness. However its in everyone's human nature to want to be accepted and liked, and it appears from others posts that I am not the only one in thinking that this person's attitude was a little hostile.

Finally, if I was unnecessarily sharp with you in my previous posts, or rude in any way, my apologies.