Why are so many Nordhavn's for sale?

Here is a very interesting chart showing the range of different retail prices world wide for diesel - as expected, Venezuela and the Middle East are the cheapest (literally cents per litre), while Europe is the most expensive (dollars per litre).

http://chartsbin.com/view/1128

You poor folk in those red countries can console yourselves with the thought that perhaps 90% of the $$$s you paid to fill your tank is going to be collected in the form of taxes and duties, and spent by your caring governments to improve everybody's quality of life immeasurably....... :D :D

Re boat speed, I would humbly say that it is all relative - I get very frustrated if I have to crawl along on a road doing 20 mph behind a tractor or a driving tortoise, cos I am accustomed to cruising at maybe 35 - 40 mph (the roads are generally quite small here), and 50 mph on the highway.

And the Cigarette owners probably think that those SunnyFairPrincesses that can cruise at 25 knots are awfully slow and boring really......

And on the opposite tack, I am generally happy sailing at 5 - 6 knots, ecstatic if we are doing 7, and thinking we are almost going through the sound barrier when doing 8...... thus I could live very happily with 8 or 9 knots average cruising speed in a motor boat.
 
Deleted User said:
Many of them are relatively low hours too which tends to suggest also that owners quickly get disenchanted with life in the slow lane. I have heard that it is quite common for a few new Nordhavn owners to take just one trip in their new boats, a trip which might have taken 3hrs in a planing boat but which takes 10hrs in a displacement boat, and then put their new boats on the market immediately. Nordhavn's marketing is slick and they're very good at seducing buyers with visions of pottering off into the sunset to some distant shore. In a way, it's why people buy Range Rovers; they imagine themselves as rufty tufty adventurers expeditioning into the wild but the reality is that they never go farther off road than parking on the pavement. Unfortunately, Nordhavn boats don't have the dual capability of a Range Rover so it's either life at slow speed or very slow speed and this really doesn't suit most weekend boaters. Luckily for Nordhavn, there seems to be a ready supply of secondhand buyers willing to buy into the dream, judging by the high secondhand prices
Click to expand...

Mike can I just ask a question, that I have always wanted to but never got around to?

I am a raggie, and apart from a brief foray into motor boating when I was very much younger, (displacement boat), I have always been a raggie, the question is, why do folk want to go fast on the water, and pour oodles of wedge into a high speed mobo. No I am really not trolling, I am just wanting to know, because it's way outside what I want to do on the water, and totally outside my experience. I just love being out on the water, and I actually don't care if I am becalmed, as there is always something I can be doing around the boat, or I can just chill and read a book or something.:)
 
I looked at a nordharven 43 ft twin engined boat last autumn, fantastic accommodation and facilities, bloody good price too but I'm not ready for my pipe and slippers yet, I also reckon that I would not like the enforced max speed, it's nice to have the choice of putting your foot down if you want to.
 
Chrusty 1 said:
Mike can I just ask a question, that I have always wanted to but never got around to?

I am a raggie, and apart from a brief foray into motor boating when I was very much younger, (displacement boat), I have always been a raggie, the question is, why do folk want to go fast on the water, and pour oodles of wedge into a high speed mobo. No I am really not trolling, I am just wanting to know, because it's way outside what I want to do on the water, and totally outside my experience. I just love being out on the water, and I actually don't care if I am becalmed, as there is always something I can be doing around the boat, or I can just chill and read a book or something.:)
Click to expand...

I have a planing boat that will do 30knots but I often travel at 8knots if I am in no rush and as you say want to read the paper, but it's nice to have the choice
 
OAF said:
I looked at a nordharven 43 ft twin engined boat last autumn, fantastic accommodation and facilities, bloody good price too but I'm not ready for my pipe and slippers yet, I also reckon that I would not like the enforced max speed, it's nice to have the choice of putting your foot down if you want to.
Click to expand...

This is I suppose a typical raggie response, but did you not fancy the sea keeping qualities of the Nordhaven?

Thanks for you comment on my other post by the way.
 
Chrusty 1 said:
Mike can I just ask a question, that I have always wanted to but never got around to?

I am a raggie, and apart from a brief foray into motor boating when I was very much younger, (displacement boat), I have always been a raggie, the question is, why do folk want to go fast on the water, and pour oodles of wedge into a high speed mobo. No I am really not trolling, I am just wanting to know, because it's way outside what I want to do on the water, and totally outside my experience. I just love being out on the water, and I actually don't care if I am becalmed, as there is always something I can be doing around the boat, or I can just chill and read a book or something.:)
Click to expand...

We always thought like that and it is reflected in our choice of a semi-displacement motor yacht rather than a planing one. There are actually very few pure displacement boats like the Nordhavn to choose from as many, like some of the Defevers that we really like are not true displacement designs, just that the engines fitted only allow displacement speeds. In our case we eventually chose the boat and it's definition as D or Semi-D was what came with it and which I think we will be very happy with, but time will tell.

We have had several friends turn to planing powerboats from sail and for understandable reasons when you know the background. In three cases the primary reason was lack of free time from running businesses. One couple only had one day per week when both were free together from work ties and the powerboat allowed them to do a bit more than just poodle around the bay, plus on their 2 week annual holiday they could go much farther afield. Another was similar, being able to take advantage of an unexpected quiet day or two and nip over to Cherbourg instead of again drifting around the bay, they even did day trips over the Channel.

I asked many times about the fuel costs and it would be wrong to think it doesn't concern me. However as one friend said, work out the costs over several years and the differences are not quite so marked, because then you take into account the costs of buying new sails, standing and running rigging. My #1 son has a big RIB and the fuel (petrol) consumption is as eye watering as it's speed, but then he has no mooring bills to pay as he keeps it at home.

Back to our case we are going power as a live aboard choice, because we still want to cruise extensively, but just not across oceans and we recognise that we will be stationary 95% of the time and comfortable living is a priority so that we can stay live aboards for more years. We could get the same size accommodation on a sailboat but it would have to be even bigger and therefore even harder to manage as a couple. So we are cheating and have negotiated our rides out under sail from others..
 
Robin said:
We always thought like that and it is reflected in our choice of a semi-displacement motor yacht rather than a planing one. There are actually very few pure displacement boats like the Nordhavn to choose from as many, like some of the Defevers that we really like are not true displacement designs, just that the engines fitted only allow displacement speeds. In our case we eventually chose the boat and it's definition as D or Semi-D was what came with it and which I think we will be very happy with, but time will tell.

We have had several friends turn to planing powerboats from sail and for understandable reasons when you know the background. In three cases the primary reason was lack of free time from running businesses. One couple only had one day per week when both were free together from work ties and the powerboat allowed them to do a bit more than just poodle around the bay, plus on their 2 week annual holiday they could go much farther afield. Another was similar, being able to take advantage of an unexpected quiet day or two and nip over to Cherbourg instead of again drifting around the bay, they even did day trips over the Channel.

I asked many times about the fuel costs and it would be wrong to think it doesn't concern me. However as one friend said, work out the costs over several years and the differences are not quite so marked, because then you take into account the costs of buying new sails, standing and running rigging. My #1 son has a big RIB and the fuel (petrol) consumption is as eye watering as it's speed, but then he has no mooring bills to pay as he keeps it at home.

Back to our case we are going power as a live aboard choice, because we still want to cruise extensively, but just not across oceans and we recognise that we will be stationary 95% of the time and comfortable living is a priority so that we can stay live aboards for more years. We could get the same size accommodation on a sailboat but it would have to be even bigger and therefore even harder to manage as a couple. So we are cheating and have negotiated our rides out under sail from others..
Click to expand...

Thanks for the insights Robin, I do fully understand your choice and the reasons for it, but it's nice to see that you aren't totally giving up on sail:)

It's right enough what you say about the cost of sails and rigging, I have just given my wee boat a suit of new sails, including a new cruising chute, the cost made me nose bleed!, but on the upside, it was for me a one off cost, as she will now see me out I reckon. Not sure that maintaining sails and rigging equates with the costs of fuel and other maintenance costs of running a big high speed mobo though, I probably don't want to know really, as if I could even afford such a thing, I think it would give me more than a nose bleed:)

Maybe size for size it's right what you say, I should think the running costs on something like a 40+ sail boat are swingeing! Especially if you like berthing in marinas.
 
Chrusty 1 said:
Thanks for the insights Robin, I do fully understand your choice and the reasons for it, but it's nice to see that you aren't totally giving up on sail:)

It's right enough what you say about the cost of sails and rigging, I have just given my wee boat a suit of new sails, including a new cruising chute, the cost made me nose bleed!, but on the upside, it was for me a one off cost, as she will now see me out I reckon. Not sure that maintaining sails and rigging equates with the costs of fuel and other maintenance costs of running a big high speed mobo though, I probably don't want to know really, as if I could even afford such a thing, I think it would give me more than a nose bleed:)

Maybe size for size it's right what you say, I should think the running costs on something like a 40+ sail boat are swingeing! Especially if you like berthing in marinas.
Click to expand...

I should have also said that in size terms length for length a sailboat probably needs to be 20% bigger to offer the same space as a powerboat, which will be wider and carry the beam for much of it's length instead of just in the middle. We now have a 47ft mobo after a 41ft sailboat and to get the same living space as we now have would take a sailboat well over 50ft.
 
Robin said:
I should have also said that in size terms length for length a sailboat probably needs to be 20% bigger to offer the same space as a powerboat, which will be wider and carry the beam for much of it's length instead of just in the middle. We now have a 47ft mobo after a 41ft sailboat and to get the same living space as we now have would take a sailboat well over 50ft.
Click to expand...

Makes you think though don't it, I mean when Eric Hiscock was sailing the world, people thought a 30 footer was commodious:) I guess peoples expectations have changed somewhat over the years.

I have often wondered whether these days especially when considering larger craft, that boats are sold to wives, not skippers. Yes I know that they could be one and the same, but I reckon you will follow me drift? I think that a lot of of big modern boats are sold with the idea that they will spend their time flitting from one marina to the next, not doing serious passages. From my point of view the interiors have too much space and not enough grabs to hang onto in a big sea. It's also surprising to me that some of them come with no passage berths at all, just big cabins with huge double beds. I could bang on about galleys fit to cook in at sea, but I wont:) I am talking about sailing here, as well as mobos.
 
Chrusty 1 said:
Makes you think though don't it, I mean when Eric Hiscock was sailing the world, people thought a 30 footer was commodious:) I guess peoples expectations have changed somewhat over the years.

I have often wondered whether these days especially when considering larger craft, that boats are sold to wives, not skippers. Yes I know that they could be one and the same, but I reckon you will follow me drift? I think that a lot of of big modern boats are sold with the idea that they will spend their time flitting from one marina to the next, not doing serious passages. From my point of view the interiors have too much space and not enough grabs to hang onto in a big sea. It's also surprising to me that some of them come with no passage berths at all, just big cabins with huge double beds. I could bang on about galleys fit to cook in at sea, but I wont:) I am talking about sailing here, as well as mobos.
Click to expand...

Are you saying our bed is not a passage berth? :eek

6328537435_d68b9eaec1.jpg


Or that we cannot cook at sea here?:eek:

6328536179_61eff9576b_z.jpg


It might get rough up top

6328533645_851f8f52d7_z.jpg


And we might need to stow the sundeck stuff and put the lock on the icemaker door in the wet bar.

6328534959_7faf4c4b5d_z.jpg


It might rain so we have screens on the flybridge to save going below

6328534341_02f1bac750_z.jpg


Shame we don't have a long keel mind!
 
Robin said......

"Are you saying our bed is not a passage berth? :eek"

Yup! I wouldn't want to try and kip in it in a blow, but hey it's all horses for courses isn't it. I reckon you have chosen your boat well for what you want to do with her, and she looks very nice for bimbling around Florida I think you said?

I am not envious, as I don't do heat and or humidity very well, I think I must have nordic blood in my veins, I much prefer temperate to cool climates. Have you actually made the shift yet, or still in transition?
 
Chrusty 1 said:
Robin said......

"Are you saying our bed is not a passage berth? :eek"

Yup! I wouldn't want to try and kip in it in a blow, but hey it's all horses for courses isn't it. I reckon you have chosen your boat well for what you want to do with her, and she looks very nice for bimbling around Florida I think you said?

I am not envious, as I don't do heat and or humidity very well, I think I must have nordic blood in my veins, I much prefer temperate to cool climates. Have you actually made the shift yet, or still in transition?
Click to expand...

We will be bimbling out to the Bahamas, the Exumas and Abacos, following the same circuit the boat did last year for nearly 4 months, plus up/down the east coast USA either inside or outside of the Intracoastal Waterway.

Why would we need to sleep at sea in a blow any more? Our longest passage will be no more than 100mls and say 12hrs, mostly less but even 150mls would be quite feasible without any need to be bound up in lee cloths and bunk boards for a kip as of old.

Heat and humidity is taken care of by the three zone air conditioning if the opening hatches, windows and fans are not enough. We can cool any or all of the cabins if we have shorepower or want to run the generator.

We do have some yottie ideas incorporated, as in the fridges, freezers and icemaker all run on 12vdc as well as 110vac, plus we have 660w of solar panels beavering away in the Florida sun to feed the huge bank of golf cart batteries. We can run quite a bit of stuff through a 3.5kw inverter too off the batteries. Cooking has been modified to run on propane, with a yottie (but 3 burner) Force 10 stove with pan holders in case a Sunseeker passes by.

The point I'm making is that yotties see things from a different perspective and you have to look again with the routines of a power boat in mind.
 
Last edited:
Robin said:
We will be bimbling out to the Bahamas, the Exumas and Abacos, following the same circuit the boat did last year for nearly 4 months, plus up/down the east coast USA either inside or outside of the Intracoastal Waterway.

Why would we need to sleep at sea in a blow any more? Our longest passage will be no more than 100mls and say 12hrs, mostly less but even 150mls would be quite feasible without any need to be bound up in lee cloths and bunk boards for a kip as of old.

Heat and humidity is taken care of by the three zone air conditioning if the opening hatches, windows and fans are not enough. We can cool any or all of the cabins if we have shorepower or want to run the generator.

We do have some yottie ideas incorporated, as in the fridges, freezers and icemaker all run on 12vdc as well as 110vac, plus we have 660w of solar panels beavering away in the Florida sun to feed the huge bank of golf cart batteries. We can run quite a bit of stuff through a 3.5kw inverter too off the batteries. Cooking has been modified to run on propane, with a yottie (but 3 burner) Force 10 stove with pan holders in case a Sunseeker passes by.

The point I'm making is that yotties see things from a different perspective and yo have to look again with the routines of a power boat in mind.
Click to expand...

Sounds pretty good to me, and yes I think that yotties do have a different perspective, not better, just different. Anyway, isn't what you are going to be doing your retirement dream? If so, being comfortable and relaxed should be top of your agenda imho:)

I do have a bit of a yen for one mobo myself, but it would need the numbers to come up big time, a Hardy 50 would be my choice if that was the route I wanted to go, megabucks, but a wonderful sea boat. I did get to have a brief ride on a Hardy 42 a few years back, and that was impressive enough. Anyway, best of luck, I hope you have a great time.
 
Chrusty 1 said:
Sounds pretty good to me, and yes I think that yotties do have a different perspective, not better, just different. Anyway, isn't what you are going to be doing your retirement dream? If so, being comfortable and relaxed should be top of your agenda imho:)

I do have a bit of a yen for one mobo myself, but it would need the numbers to come up big time, a Hardy 50 would be my choice if that was the route I wanted to go, megabucks, but a wonderful sea boat. I did get to have a brief ride on a Hardy 42 a few years back, and that was impressive enough. Anyway, best of luck, I hope you have a great time.
Click to expand...

We have friends with a very nice Hardy 36, so I imagine the 50 is quite a boat.

We always planned to be off sailing the world on retirement but then had to work on for rather more years than we would like, not to mention my having both hips replaced (after years of sailing heeled over?:)) hence the last delay which will make me 67 next week. Ocean sailing has lost it's appeal and rocky finances dictate boat OR house not both, hence we have a boat that is a house when we need comfort and a boat when we get itchy feet. There are many more 'motoryacht' styles in the USA than here and we will have the all teak interior of a yacht with the engines of a mobo. Trawlers (so called but they are not really) are a big category in the USA, bigger surprisingly than the fast planing brigade I think.
 
Chrusty 1 said:
I have always been a raggie, the question is, why do folk want to go fast on the water, and pour oodles of wedge into a high speed mobo.
Click to expand...
Chrusty1 for many people like me, its simple. I have limited time to go boating due to business and family commitments so, if I want to cruise anywhere beyond the other side of the bay, I need to do it at speed. There are other reasons as well. When you have a young family, you don't want to put them off boating by subjecting them to many hours cooped up in boat. For me, the unspoken agreement I had with my family was that in return for us spending time as a family on the boat, I would get them to destinations in a reasonable amount of time so that we could enjoy ourselves as a family onshore. Then I don't mind admitting that, like many people, I simply enjoy speed. I enjoy fast cars and motorbikes and I enjoy fast motorboating.
Having said that, our youngest is hopefully off to university this year and I hope to take more time off work so that SWMBO and I can do more extended cruising. With more time to get to places, we don't need the speed and neither do we need to spend huge amounts of money on fuel so my next boat will be one capable of comfortable displacement speed cruising. Whether thats a full displacement, semi displacement or even a planing hulled boat, I don't know at this stage but it will be a boat chosen with a different set of priorities to the boats we've had until now
 
Bajansailor said:
Here is a very interesting chart showing the range of different retail prices world wide for diesel - as expected, Venezuela and the Middle East are the cheapest (literally cents per litre), while Europe is the most expensive (dollars per litre).

http://chartsbin.com/view/1128
Click to expand...
If anybody wants to understand why Europe is a declining economic power in this world, that chart just about tells it all
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Other threads that may be of interest

S
Remote oil filter for VP TMD22P-C
Replies
0
Views
65
superboots
S
conks01
Hanse 301 Buying Advice
Replies
5
Views
378
stownsend
S
lustyd
VHF course help
4 5 6
Replies
113
Views
2K
billskip
billskip

Share this page

Top