geem
Well-Known Member
48v panels can be a problem as well. 24v being more popular maybe?
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Why are production boats not 24v
- Thread starter geem
- Start date
geem
Well-Known Member
Beneteau, Jeanneau and Bavaria don't offer it on yachts typically below 55ft. Like I said, only X yachts do this on the rangeIt depends on the boat size obviously, but you don't need to look at superyachts.
As petem said, mobos around 50' and above (but I could name plenty also under that threshold) have 24V for both domestic and engines.
So much so, that my answer to your question has to be: why, name me one who don't, if you can!?
melvynpatrick
Active Member
My boat was built in 1976. The engine starter is 12v with its own alternator. The house side has its own 24v alternator. The instruments were/still are, b and g which run off 24v. Lights were 24v but now changed to led 24v. Fridge freezer 24v. Heater 24v. Windlass 24v. I have a Victron 24-12 converter which runs the Raymarine network and the computer. Only trouble I’ve had is finding 24v solar panels that fit where I want them.
geem
Well-Known Member
Mine was built in 1980. Ditto but my engine starter is 24v, alternator 24v, the only things 12v are the vhf and the raymarine instruments. The autopilot is 24v. I have 3x100w 24v panels on the hardtop and 4x12v panels on the guardrails, wired in series pairs to give 24v
potentillaCO32
Well-Known Member
They still use drum brakes and manual transmissions ( for most of their shyte Peterbilt trucks) along with virtually no infotainment.
Drive a new scania or volvo with camera mirrors, disc brakes, infotainment and their great auto boxes and it is decades. Ahead of the murican rednecks.
Baggywrinkle
Well-Known Member
Edited my previous post to add this. Two of the panels in series have a Vmpp of around 71V
noelex
Well-Known Member
24V has many advantages over 12V, and I agree it is surprising there are not more cruising yachts using this as standard, although it is becoming more common.
I think there is still a perception that 24V equipment is hard to find, but that has not been my experience. Many marine electronic devices will run from both 12 or 24V straight from the box, and for almost all other items you are likely to use, they are readily available in a 24V version.
There is no need to have multiple devices running from a separate 12V supply as there was when 24V boats first started to hit the market. The only devices that use 12V on the house system on our boat are the NMEA 2000 backbone and the VHF. Both these items run from a 24 to 12V (actually 13.8V) converter. A slight extra complication, but the higher stable voltage free from voltage spikes also helps the reliability of these components.
I think there is still a perception that 24V equipment is hard to find, but that has not been my experience. Many marine electronic devices will run from both 12 or 24V straight from the box, and for almost all other items you are likely to use, they are readily available in a 24V version.
There is no need to have multiple devices running from a separate 12V supply as there was when 24V boats first started to hit the market. The only devices that use 12V on the house system on our boat are the NMEA 2000 backbone and the VHF. Both these items run from a 24 to 12V (actually 13.8V) converter. A slight extra complication, but the higher stable voltage free from voltage spikes also helps the reliability of these components.
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geem
Well-Known Member
That is ok if you have a large enough solar arch. We don't have such a device so 24v panels work well for us. We do series up our 12v panels in a similar manner though
Baggywrinkle
Well-Known Member
I think most people have to make do with the system they inherited when they bought the boat. A new boat would allow specification of a 24V system ... a second hand boat, you get what it has and go from there.
My boat came with electric genoa furling, windlass, bow thruster, electric genoa winches, an electric cabin-top winch, a 3000W inverter, and an electric bathing platform, and for some reason it is all 12V
... would not have been my choice, and it has cabling that is as thick as my thumb - but it all works. Not going to toss it all to migrate to 24V.For an upgrade, I wanted a powerful generator as a backup, and settled on an Integrel E-Power 9 SE which pushed me to a 48V/12V mixed system.
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MapisM
Well-Known Member
I take your word for it 'cause I'm not familiar with sailboats - though a friend of mine used to have an old Hanse 47 which did have 24V.
Anyhow, by the same token, I can assure you that you'd struggle to find a 50'+ powerboat with 12V.
Including Beneteau BTW, at least the only one of their mobo I've ever seen in flesh, the ST52.
geem
Well-Known Member
I was thinking about new production boats. Changing over would be a bit of a nightmare.I think most people have to make do with the system they inherited when they bought the boat. A new boat would allow specification of a 24V system ... a second hand boat, you get what it has.
My boat came with electric genoa furling, windlass, bow thruster, electric genoa winches, an electric cabin-top winch, a 3000W inverter, and an electric bathing platform, and for some reason it is all 12V
For an upgrade, I wanted a powerful generator as a backup, and settled on an Integrel E-Power 9 SE which pushed me to a 48V/12V mixed system.
Just as an aside, we have not run our conventional diesel generator (other than for a monthly test) since we set off in July. We have ample power from just solar. We are an all electric galley, we run a 240l/hr 220v watermaker, immersion heater and two fridges/freezer. 14kw of lithium battery and 1300w of adjustable solar
Baggywrinkle
Well-Known Member
That does worry me a bit, it may turn out to be an un-necessary purchase
... or I double up on battery capacity and fit aircon.
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
Sunreef are one.
Refueler
Well-Known Member
mmmm actually only partially true. There still non US trucks with 2x 12v batterys on the rack - but not unusual to have them split use. I agree it is becoming less common.
The Mercedes truck my company had was such .. even though it had hydraulic tail lift etc.
noelex
Well-Known Member
I agree, but it will take some time. 48V has further advantages over 24V, but I don’t think it’s the right answer if building a boat today.
The marine equipment available in 48V versions is expanding, but it is still difficult or impossible to obtain many necessary components. Even minor devices like switches and fuse holders are harder to find in 48V versions as much of the equipment available today is only rated up to 32V. I think these issues will be solved in the near future, but at the moment it would be frustrating, especially obtaining replacement parts in remote locations. You can walk into almost any chandlery and buy a 24V water pump or navigation light, but you are very unlikely to find a 48V version.
Baggywrinkle
Well-Known Member
I agree, I'm stuck with a 48V/12V split system.
geem
Well-Known Member
All the superyacht seem to be 24v. Both the 75ft yachts that friends are skippers on are 24v. I am just wondering why it doesn't extend down to 40ft yachts where there would be an advantage
Baggywrinkle
Well-Known Member
The major production manufacturers build boats from 25-30ft upwards (both power and sail), and they buy components in bulk. They fit the same lights, switches, water pumps, tank sensors etc. etc. across the entire range, so it is almost certainly cheaper to build fewer, larger vessels at 12V, than it is to extend 24V down to the higher volume smaller boats.
There is almost certainly a reliance on the purchasing leverage derived from the higher volume of smaller vessels. This way the cost savings of bulk ordering 12V components for the entire range probably outweighs the wiring savings in the smaller volume larger boats.
Then there is the range covered by 24V. Quick windlasses under 800W are only available in 12V, but their 12V range goes up to 1700W - which will cover most of the range of a large volume production manufacturer.
If it was cheaper the extend a 24V architecture into the smaller boats, rather than extend a 12V architecture into larger boats, then rest assured, Ben, Jen, Bav etc. would be doing it.
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
I have zero data to back it up but I'd guess that the same logic would mean that the people who make those marine components make them very tolerant of input voltage and can handle the entire possible range of voltages of both 12v and 24v - so 8v-32v seems highly plausible to catch a flat-ish 12v or a hyperactive 24v battery/alternator. I suspect the only reason N2K has to be 12v is because it's essentially an automotive standard. (Mind you, I can find google sources that say Can can be 24v/12v and google sources that say the opposite.
)potentillaCO32
Well-Known Member
I think you will find they put the 2 12v batteries in series to give 24v.
Every lorry i have ever driven inckuding mercedes has been 24v.
