Who thinks this is the correct level of fine

I know this has come up before, but what if a sail-boat went through the same stretch of water at 20 knots, would that be okay?

Still agree the guy going through in the mobo was an idiot and deserved a fine but still feel there are double standards out there.
 
I dont know this bit of water but as some have said rules are rules.

My point is that you cant legislate for stupid but fines dont seem to work,maybe we need to do more for persistant offenders like awareness courses like the ones used against drivers.

I am not condoning compulsary training or registration but I recently ran a red light, first time in 30 0dd years of driving, strupid lack of concentration. I was offered a traffic light awareness course instead of 3 points and a fine. Course was just a little more than fine but I wanted to avoid the points, I waffle but point is I got a lot out of the course. Stuff about safety, awareness and stuff I should have known was OK but they tell you why certain signs and restrictions are there and it does make you think when you approach certain road situations you have been taking for granted for years.

Just a thought.
 
ricky_s said:
I know this has come up before, but what if a sail-boat went through the same stretch of water at 20 knots, would that be okay?

Still agree the guy going through in the mobo was an idiot and deserved a fine but still feel there are double standards out there.
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Depends what the bylaws state - I guess you're referring to Chi Harbour where vessels under MOTOR are restricted to 8 knots whilst there is no such restriction for sailing craft.... whilst there is a little validity to your annoyance it ignores several factors ...

One of which is that most sailing craft cannot achieve 20 knots - the few that do require a good level of sailing ability which seems to exclude the majority of knuckleheads (there are still a few though!)

Another is that most sailing craft that are capable of exceeding the speed limit by a good margin have no fixed method of displaying speed - most are banned by their class rules for racing. (ok - it's obvious when you're really going for it but the difference between 8 and 12 knots is not always obvious without a readout)

Normally the amount of wash given by a speeding sailing dinghy is insignificant compared to the waves created by wind required to generate that boat speed - it is a different beast to your power driven vessel whose wake is larger because it pushes the water behind it to create the thrust and isn't reliant on the wind - plus the power driven vessel is usually heavier due to construction, engine & fuel!

Chi Harbour have effectively banned multihull racing within the harbour as the space required by the vessels was deemed incompatible with the rest of the harbour users. I believe there were major discussions last season due to the upset caused by the few fast racing dinghies - I take that as a warning that unless the dinghy sailors/racers can manage their own presence in the harbour then the HM will impose restrictions on us - that may see certain classes effectively banned from the harbour.

Personally I have little problem with powerboats going fast - where appropriate - the problem is with the definition of "where appropriate" ...
 
Kipper said:
I dont know this bit of water but as some have said rules are rules.

My point is that you cant legislate for stupid but fines dont seem to work,maybe we need to do more for persistant offenders like awareness courses like the ones used against drivers.

I am not condoning compulsary training or registration ...
Just a thought.
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I suppose the court could impose a training course on the abuser - but is there sufficient demand to run this sort of thing?
I guess the best way would be to use a local training school to give a tailored course ... but most of the RYA courses are on boat handling and navigating and not geared the same way as the road awareness courses are .. ?
 
Kipper said:
...It appears that most of us agree that the level of fine seems to reflect how seriosly we take being disturbed on a mooring...
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This wasn't about people being disturbed on their mooring, this was about irresponsible and dangerous behaviour. If I recall correctly it happened on a Sunday afternoon. At that time there would probably be very few people on their boats on the moorings. What there could be though in that stretch of water is 20, 30 or more boats from 5 to 50 feet transiting in both directions and one or 2 ferries which pass close to that area, one holding station to allow the other to pass. The fine reflects the stupidity and recklessness of the boater involved, not the disturbance caused to others or the wash he may or may not have caused.
 
The fine is fair when you consider he had been warned and decided to continue to ignore the HM.

We could do with the same HM on the river itchen, so many boats speed and yes create a wash. Last Sunday a fishing boat was on the plane until some other guy waved at him by the Itchen bridge.

I do wonder if the problem is more to do with lack of training. I have noticed quite a few trailer boaters launch and speed away.
 
FlowerPower said:
This thing about mobo wash being smaller at higher speeds is a red herring, at least in the land of smaller to mid-sized mobos that i live in.

Wash pretty much follows the fuel consumption curve up to a point. So, minimum wash is at tickover with one engine turned off. Big hump at transition speed (12-15 kts on an S28), then less wash once fully planing. But, only less wash than transition speed. Not less wash than trundle speed.

With smaller boats, the curves might be different. But probably not much, unless you are in the tender.

It does mean that "slowing down" for another boat if on the plane is very pointless, unless done way way in advance, and all the way down to trundle speed, else better to keep going and alter course to add a bit of separation at the original speed.
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Bless you for that. Having been near scalded in sheltered water by unexpected wash - which is very rapid movement compared to normal waves, I wish more MoBo's would keep their distance & not "buzz" yots which may well have wimmin & kids below out of sight & not expecting to be thrown across the cabin.
 
ricky_s said:
I know this has come up before, but what if a sail-boat went through the same stretch of water at 20 knots, would that be okay?

Still agree the guy going through in the mobo was an idiot and deserved a fine but still feel there are double standards out there.
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indeed, clearly doing 20knots in chichester harbour in a 2 ton dragonfly is perfectly acceptable, just don't do it on a more manoverable jetski or its a 5k fine.

best not mention all those 'safety' boats which seem to be more about letting sailing clubs raz around on the water filming and less about safety
 
yesod said:
indeed, clearly doing 20knots in chichester harbour in a 2 ton dragonfly is perfectly acceptable, just don't do it on a more manoverable jetski or its a 5k fine.
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Have you ever seen a Dragonfly doing 20kts in Chi Harbour? Actually - come to think of it - have you ever done 20 knots in a sailing boat of any kind in Chi Harbour?

yesod said:
best not mention all those 'safety' boats which seem to be more about letting sailing clubs raz around on the water filming and less about safety
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Nope - they're not allowed to raz around at all - but speeding may be overlooked if you're attending an incident.

I can recall speeding one time when a boat capsized and I couldn't see the two heads I'd expect to see ... as it was an unusual capsize I felt justified in opening up to ~25kts - for about 20 seconds - then, once saw the 2 heads moving in a normal manner I lost all the speed ...
 
The speed record for a Moth is somewhere around 30 kts?

Although I have never seen one going that fast in the harbour, 15+kts should be possible on the right day.
 
ricky_s said:
I know this has come up before, but what if a sail-boat went through the same stretch of water at 20 knots, would that be okay?

Still agree the guy going through in the mobo was an idiot and deserved a fine but still feel there are double standards out there.
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Of course it wouldn't. We are not talking someone numericaly exceeding an arbitary limit here. Or some over sensitive saily bloke moaning that he just might have been opening his fray bentos when the ripple went by. It is someone exceeding the spirit of the limit, deliberately and repeatedly. If the facts are as reported he deserved it.
 
fireball said:
I know what they look like ... there's a couple of 920's in the harbour.

That pic is almost certainly not doing 20kts - and it's not in Chi Harbour.
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sorry, thought you'd bother reading the report. was looking forward do your spirited defence of a 2 ton yacht doing 15knots by moored boats in chichester harbour.
 
yesod said:
sorry, thought you'd bother reading the report. was looking forward do your spirited defence of a 2 ton yacht doing 15knots by moored boats in chichester harbour.
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My apologies - it is Chi Harbour - didn't recognise the background - still not (IMHO) doing 20 knots in that pic - and I certainly don't condone sailing at that speed through (occupied) tightly packed moorings. The writer is correct - things happen quickly at that speed - you need time and space to retain control over the vessel.

I have sailed (raced) at >15kts through moorings - but in a somewhat smaller craft and with a heightened awareness (not least because one of the moored boats was mine!) ... But the manoeuvrability of the racing dinghy is superb and if there is a tender in my path then I would change track to give it a wide berth - apart from the obvious dangers to both vessels - not doing so would only slow me down later on. It's not something you want to do in an active mooring trot with lots of moving craft to dodge...

I have also sailed my cruiser through the moorings (at less than 8kts!) and it is not something you undertake lightly -
 
frankly, i don't buy the 'greater awareness', nor the 'boats that size don't have a speedo' - try those excuses on dibble next time you're stopped for speeding or dangerous driving.
but i'm glad you agree that 15knots in a 2 ton yacht is stupid.
 
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