Who thinks a vessel under sail always has right of way?

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Sinbad1951

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Just curious. How many sailors on here think they have absolute right of way once they are under sail relative to all other vessels not under sail.
Slightly convoluted but find its becoming increasing common for someone under sail to be hollering 'Im sailing' which indicates that they think they have the right to proceed as they wish with total disregard for who or what vessels they interfere with.
Prize goes to idiot who tacked meters from me onto a collision course at Pinmill and kept shouting "Im sailing, Im sailing,' until putting the helm up a metre off long keeled 28 ton ketch.
 
nortada said:
Believe it is the responsibility of all skippers to avoid collisions.
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If you add one word to Steve's reply, that being 'ABSOLUTE' then as no vessel has absolute right of way, Steve is correct
I sail with few rules, one being to enjoy sailing, the other being to stay alive

If we really must have this in the ECF, then let's agree to be civil, or not respond at all :rolleyes:
 
I was motoring, returning to port, tidying up the deck and under auto pilot, when a dinghy came up my stern and told me to get out of the way as he was sailing and I was motoring. He's not the only one, out of a small straw poll of local racers, who thought the same.
 
I recently ploughed my way through the Chausey Regatta fleet in my mobo at about 1 knot. I had a swimmer alongside the boat and was displaying my RAM signals. Upset a few people that did.
 
The most common instance where it doesn't apply is overtaking... Any vessel overtaking is give way vessel, be it sail or power.

Also remember the "pecking order" from the bottom up...

Power driven, sail, fishing, constrained by draught, RAM, not under command.
 
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Sixpence said:
If you add one word to Steve's reply, that being 'ABSOLUTE' then as no vessel has absolute right of way, Steve is correct
I sail with few rules, one being to enjoy sailing, the other being to stay alive

If we really must have this in the ECF, then let's agree to be civil, or not respond at all :rolleyes:
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Why are Col Reg different here to the rest of England, or for that matter the World, Dave. You seem to be after the prefects job :(
 
nortada said:
Believe it is the responsibility of all skippers to avoid collisions.
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And you are quite correct in that belief.

However when I am the stand on vessel I do believe in holding my course / speed until it is my belief that the give way vessel is not doing enough to resolve the situation. To the extent of calling merchant ships on VHF to make them aware of my presence.

Might is not right and professional mariners in my experience would prefer leisure sailors to obey the rules so they can predict what is going to happen. When some skippers in a stand on situation alter they may well just counteract the avoiding action made by the larger vessel! When I was driving HMs sleek grey warriors of death it wasn't unusual to have altered course up to 6 miles away to increase a CPA to an acceptable distance. Also larger vessels are looking further ahead and may have 2 or 3 vessels they are avoiding. The Dover Straits at 20+ knots were always fun!!
 
Sinbad1951 said:
Prize goes to idiot who tacked meters from me onto a collision course at Pinmill and kept shouting "Im sailing, Im sailing,' until putting the helm up a metre off long keeled 28 ton ketch.
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Were you the give way vessel? There is nothing in IRPCS which forbids course alterations resulting in a risk of collision, only instructions on what to do after that risk has arisen.
 
A couple of months ago I was crossing Coverack Bay having rounded The Lizard. Two v large tankers pointing at me not far off shore.
I bore slightly away towards the shore but the inner tanker changed course towards me. I bore away again, and again, getting ever closer to the rocks and the tanker still changed heading to collision course. It became evident that if the tanker maintained its heading it would hit the rocks.
Just as I was about to tack, clear his heading and then "politely contact him on VHF".......



..........I saw he was swinging at anchor.:o
 
I think we may be a bit optimistic in expecting dinghy sailors to know let alone obey the collision regulations. Those racing will know the racing rules, mostly, but these won't cover all eventualities when meeting larger vessels, especially in narrow channels. I am usually content to do what is necessary to preserve my gelcoat but reserve my right to make my feelings known to the offender.
 
Robert Wilson said:
A couple of months ago I was crossing Coverack Bay having rounded The Lizard. Two v large tankers pointing at me not far off shore.
I bore slightly away towards the shore but the inner tanker changed course towards me. I bore away again, and again, getting ever closer to the rocks and the tanker still changed heading to collision course. It became evident that if the tanker maintained its heading it would hit the rocks.
Just as I was about to tack, clear his heading and then "politely contact him on VHF".......



..........I saw he was swinging at anchor.:o
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Humm, good tale told there; somewhat akin to the old tale of ..... do not follow the Barge ahead, it just might be going to load sand......
 
Robert Wilson said:
A couple of months ago I was crossing Coverack Bay having rounded The Lizard. Two v large tankers pointing at me not far off shore.
I bore slightly away towards the shore but the inner tanker changed course towards me. I bore away again, and again, getting ever closer to the rocks and the tanker still changed heading to collision course. It became evident that if the tanker maintained its heading it would hit the rocks.
Just as I was about to tack, clear his heading and then "politely contact him on VHF".......



..........I saw he was swinging at anchor.:o
Click to expand...

Very good tale, made I larf.
There was a story about a warship repeatedly calling "the small red ship, please keep clear".
Eventually the lightship replied and said he wasn't going to move.
I have been shouted at by a racer for getting in his way, although I had been anchored in the same spot for some hours.
 
Few dinghy sailors know the IRPCS and many racing sailors don't know them either. They only know the racing rules and the phrase 'power gives way to sail' which, of course, is not always true.

I teach the Colrege as they apply to sailors almost every weekend during the summer and I'm no longer surprised at how little people know, even those who have been sailing for a while. If you sail in the Ionian especially it is obvious how few people understand the concept of Stand On and Give Way. You can go on a flotilla there with next to no knowledge.

If skippers were required to have a licence, which included a theory test, it might improve things but I'm not convinced it would completely solve the problem among those who only sail once a year. They would just forget ...

The thing most of my students worry about, understandably, is being on a collision course with a large vessel when they are Stand On. Most big ships, in my experience, do give way when they should (unlike fishing boats in every country I've sailed in who think they have priority whether fishing or steaming home).

I have a couple of good illustrations, provided by the RYA, of what a river looks like from the bridge of a ship rather than from a yacht, and what it looks like in cross-section underwater. They show very clearly that what may not appear be a narrow channel to a yacht skipper is certainly one to the captain of a large vessel.

I always advise students to use binoculars when looking at ships. It's often impossible to tell with the naked eye at a distance if a ship has altered course by 5-10 degrees but you can usually see with binoculars. I also tell them that, if they are Stand On but are worried about a large ship and want to get out of its way the important thing is to do it very early as well as very obviously.

I hope those reading this who are big ship captains would approve of what I say - if not, please do let me know what advice I should give.
 
I think the biggest issue is sailing vessel 'skippers' who think that they have rights ahead of everyone else full stop end of story no argument.
I'm perfectly happy to alter course or slow/stop to allow others to keep on their tack.
The main culprits appear to be dinghies racing in a narrow deep water channel when they forget that the vessel they are expecting to move cannot as there is no depth out of the channel - presumably because they can go there themselves.
One positive story - In our previous boat we were motoring up the Deben. When we approached a 'junior' race fleet off Waldringfield. There was then a sudden announcement over a megaphone off a safety boat saying 'keep clear of the big blue boat as he can't navigate outside of the channel'. :encouragement:
Bottom line is - don't expect me to run my boat aground just because you are racing - I will move if I can do so safely.
 
Another good 'un is the shout "I'm racing!!!" , implying that all other considerations such as IRPCS, common sense & courtesy are secondary to be being first around a mark. I do try not to interfere with a racing fleet, but sometimes circumstances require that it is they who must alter course. Everyone on the water, from kayak to supertanker, should know the "rules of the road'". No excuse for ignorance: accidents caused by such lack of knowledge can lead to damage, injury or worse. A weekend with some flash-cards is all that is necessary to learn the essentials well. Having said that, I always assume that the other vessel doesn't know the rules, and get ready to do something about it if this proves to be true.
 
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