Who makes/made 20 – 30 ft twin keel cruisers.

[E39mad]

One of the nicest boats for sailing under 30 feet that I have experience of is an MG 27 (Rob Humphreys design) sometimes known as the Contessa 27 or MGC 27. One or two bilge keelers were built but most were fin or lifting keel.

 

[RedAdmiral]

Please don't tell me I'm an idiot but......

I like my Newbridge Pioneer - 26 feet, built in 1989, iron twin keels (not grp keels filled with shot), buoyant, spacious and, with a junk rig, allows me to carry an inflated dinghy on deck. My cruising grounds over the eleven years I've had her, Skye and the Western Isles and now, based in Tollesbury, the East Coast. Worth? Probably about £12K. Does the job.

 

[Tranona]

Hi,

I can only speak for meself here but: I have sailed and crewed and owned some of the mentioned boats here, and we do have some of those in the club.
You are absolutely right about the budget and I do apologise for having this one overlooked but I really can't overstress that some of the mentioned boats here really do not sail 'nice'.
With nice I mean not that they are the fastest or something, but it does make a huge difference if a boat sails properly and is satisfying or if you have a boat that does not go good to windward (I know we are talking about bilge keelers ), doesn't like high waves, has a strange tiller/mainsheet arrangement and so on. That was my point.
I would absolutely dismiss a Westerly Centaur or a leisure 27 because of those reasons.
On the other hand a Konsort (not in the 20k budget I am afraid) or a Sadler 26 or even a Sadler 25 sail much better and are much more rewarding from the pure sail point of view.

The most important factor is of course that a boat must suit your needs. But the OP should test-sail on some of the mentioned boats here and built an own opinion.

regards,
jow

Makes you wonder why the Centaur was the biggest selling boat of all time with 2500 built - if it was so awful!

Despite what you might say, such boats (and there are many that by your criteria are even worse than the Centaur) still find a ready market and hundreds of happy owners.

You are falling into the trap of assuming everybody wants the same out of a boat that you do. The enormous variety of boats on the market suggests that this is just not the case. You are entitled to your opinion - just don't assume everybody else is the same.

 

[Seajet]

Centaur

my Father bought a Centaur after learning to sail on dinghies and then our Anderson 22.

He is not a boy-racer, but does appreciate what a rewarding ( which doesn't always mean fast ) boat will offer.

The Centaur proved perfectly competent, it took Mum and Dad across the Channel a few times, and it's not as slow as some people think, actually a good passage boat.

However, the lack of feedback on the helm, just a completely 'OK I'll go where you point me' feel, drove Dad nuts !

Being from a Flight Testing background he tried all sorts of mod's to the rudder, lead & trailing edge extensions, vortex generators - without much success; he always kicks himself he didn't go for a Sadler 29.

The way a boat responds to seas may also be judged enjoyable and spirited to some or frightening and bouncy to others.

Big difference between speed and 'rewarding', something only the OP can quantify.

 

[chriscoreline]

Big difference between speed and 'rewarding', something only the OP can quantify.

i agree with this, though ill need to log more hours on different boats before i make a decision.

my issue with the westerly, having been on one or two is that there all pretty dingey inside, id end up spending half the boat doing up the insides. And i have been informed that no amount of nautical voodoo or caustic fluids will get rid of that charming 'bilge and engine' smell.

 

[Tranona]

i agree with this, though ill need to log more hours on different boats before i make a decision.

my issue with the westerly, having been on one or two is that there all pretty dingey inside, id end up spending half the boat doing up the insides. And i have been informed that no amount of nautical voodoo or caustic fluids will get rid of that charming 'bilge and engine' smell.

Think that applies to just about any boat of the period. What seems to make Ws worse is the (relatively easily fixed) droopy headlinings. But in most cases a bit of hard work can tranform them - bit like old houses owned by old people, they get used to the dingyness so it seems normal to them. Good clean and a lick of paint works wonders.

 

[misterg]

... i have been informed that no amount of nautical voodoo or caustic fluids will get rid of that charming 'bilge and engine' smell.

If you fix any leaks and give everything a good clean .....


... it will still smell

The voodoo you need is enzyme based 'Pet Odour' remover:

Fix leaks / good clean / spray everything with pet odour remover => no smell.

(Honest !)

Andy

 

[Seajet]

If you fix any leaks and give everything a good clean .....


... it will still smell

The voodoo you need is enzyme based 'Pet Odour' remover:

Fix leaks / good clean / spray everything with pet odour remover => no smell.

(Honest !)

Andy

If it can do all that, does a spray make a Centaur look sleek too ?

If it does, I'll have a can to try on the ex-girlfriend

 

[cid]

Hi before you make a choice look at a Hunter delta.Keel lifts straight up and will float in 20 inches of water. Bigger again the Kelt 8.50 very roomy boat ,there is one in the cork harbour area called Flamingo.I have sailed it out of Dublin to Crookhaven,to west coast of Scotland and clyde. I liked it so much I bought one,Keel swings up into a plate and it rests up right.

 

[muyuu]

The Konsort and the Fulmar will both be well out of budget, but older Berwick units (31ft) can be found for under 20k Euro. It's really an older and slower Fulmar, but it may do the trick. The Centaur really is slow. Its replacement, the Griffon, can be found within that 20k Euro budget and that one sails well.

http://www.westerly-owners.co.uk/craftforsale.php

The Centaur being the big success it was, it's a bit overpriced in the market compared to the Macwester 27. A safe option would be to get either a Macwester 27 and keep the difference, or go for a Westerly Griffon.

The Fulmar is nice but it's north of 30k quid.

I like Parker/Superseal lifting keelers but they are hard to find and they come at a premium.

 

[Seajet]

If the Berwick is an older and slower Fulmar, the Centaur must be an ancestor of the Space Shuttle !

In fact the Centaur sails well in the right hands, it's just unrewarding.

Have a look for an Anderson 26, a good or refurbished one will suit your requirements handsomely, and they sail like a witch !

www.anderson22class.co.uk

 

[muyuu]

If the Berwick is an older and slower Fulmar, the Centaur must be an ancestor of the Space Shuttle !

In fact the Centaur sails well in the right hands, it's just unrewarding.

Have a look for an Anderson 26, a good or refurbished one will suit your requirements handsomely, and they sail like a witch !

www.anderson22class.co.uk

It might sail well, but very slowly!

OTOH the Cobra 850 does better, or the Hunter Horizon 26 (or 27). Kingfisher 30? these can be found for cheap, but they are ancient.

 

[Seajet]

The Centaur is not a slow boat, in the right hands; the boat has suffered 2 major drawbacks,

The big ( 23hp ) original engine leads people to think she needs it, in fact the only reason it was fitted was that Westerlys' stumbled across a good deal from Volvo at the time, and most Centaurs have the drag of a fixed 3 blade prop.

Secondly the boat attracted a lot of newbies who didn't have a clue about sail trim.

My father, brought up on dinghies, got respectable speeds out of his Centaur, I sailed my Carter 30 of the time in company on a cruise through the Channel Islands to St.Malo and while of course we had to depower to stay in contact, the Centaur did well.

The main drawback, if one knows how to sail properly, was the lack of 'feel' and feedback on the helm, hence my comment about being unrewarding.

 

[Seajet]

It might sail well, but very slowly!

OTOH the Cobra 850 does better, or the Hunter Horizon 26 (or 27). Kingfisher 30? these can be found for cheap, but they are ancient.

I have yet to see a Cobra of any size perform well, the word 'tub' springs to mind...a Kingfisher 30 would be really getting on in years.

If looking for a good sailing boat which will happily dry out on mud, have a look for an Anderson 26, but not many were made before the company went bust in about 1982, as the MOD contract for high-spec' warship launches they relied on had the plug pulled.

The Sabre 27 and especially the Trapper 500/501 twin keelers would be well worth a look too, but they'll never hold an Anderson26, deceptively quick and designed with lessons learned after the 1979 Fastnet disaster.

 

[[10753]]

Slightly bias as I have one.

Yes the Kingfisher 30 is an old boat, 67 made between 1964-1974 and yes there are some really shoddy ones. But find a good one and you are in business. Built like tanks, sailed everywhere, safe, reliable sea boats. Deep cockpit safe for children, wide side decks, Aerofoil underwater profile engineered by an aircraft designer etc.. The downside is you get wet, very wet as they go through waves. On the plus side no keel slapping as they are deep and she draws 4'2".

Like all boats they have their problems but most are relatively easy to sort. Possible major expenses would be engine, sails, rigging but that's the same with all old boats.

www.kyoa.org.uk

 

[chriscoreline]

Thanks for all the suggestions, its definatly been a great reserch exersize. In the meantime i have been serching for some of theese boats for sale in the Cork area as im not too sure i want to try and manage 'delivering' a boat from dublin or england as my first practical exersize in single handed passage planning!
Neither the boatshed or appolo dock seem to have much available on the south coast or Ireland, there is a dedicated broker based in Kinsale but they only have two affordable boats in the area and there both fin keel girls.

However i can afford to be patient and wait for one of theese suggestions to come on the market, then swoop like some sort of boat eating eagle.

In the mean time i am signed up for the dayskipper shore cource, which should shake the cobwebs off some of my theoretical knowlege, there are three sail-training companies in the area to keep me bussy, and im helping some friends fix up a few cruisers (including a westerly god-knows-what small bilge keeler with no table in the saloon) so when i do find a boat i like, i should be redy to use it.