Who has used a flare in anger & why?

[GHA]

Flare talk pops up quite often on here, seems sensible to do everything practical to not need them in the first place > so ..

• Anyone care to leave a few details of any scary situations where flares really were used in anger?
• What could have been done differently so the flares would not have been needed?

IMHO, all "disaster recovery" type stuff like flares & man overboard rescue etc etc should have money/time spent after spending money/time to do what can realistically be done to try to prevent the disaster happening in the first place.

 

[Refueler]

I have let off flares of all sorts - including Rocket Lines of the Rifle and Self Contained type.

With Flares - its wise to have a leather glove that extends over the cuff.

Why let off ??

It used to be common practice on ships diring safety drills - when well away from land ... no other ships around ... to DEMO expired flares ......
Two reasons ... a) to get people used to how ... b) to let them experience and then not be shocked by the firing when needed.

I have seen people fire and drop a flare in shock ... luckily - when instructing - I got them to hold outside the rail so if they dropped it - it went in the water and not on deck.

Story :

Seismic work of Libya coast .....

We had a local small gunboat stationed with us to guide and avoid us entering 'mined areas' .....
One day the boat motored off leaving us alone .... next we see a 'fishing boat' approaching. I'm on bridge and I get out the Very Pistol and White flare cartridge ... ready to fire up in the air to warn off the boat.
The French Party Chief (head of the Seismic Crew) is on bridge as well and he asks if he can fire the flare.
OK - no problem ... just note that the gun has quite a kick and best to hold with two hands ...

Of course he thinks its Gunslinger time and when he fired - he did it one handed ....

Unfortunately gun barrel dropped when it fired ... flare shoots off and hits deck of the 'fishing boat'. Guys on the boat are diving for cover as the flare is ricocheting around the deck ....
Finally the flare dies and guys all come out shouting and screaming at us ... while a couple of them pull an old tarp of a 50cal Machine gun mounted on deck ...

After tense few minutes .. all is calm again ... we have spoken to shore and been advised - its our replacement escort boat !

 

[Deleted member 478]

Flare talk pops up quite often on here, seems sensible to do everything practical to not need them in the first place > so ..

• Anyone care to leave a few details of any scary situations where flares really were used in anger?
• What could have been done differently so the flares would not have been needed?

IMHO, all "disaster recovery" type stuff like flares & man overboard rescue etc etc should have money/time spent after spending money/time to do what can realistically be done to try to prevent the disaster happening in the first place.

Nope. What about you?

 

[Refueler]

Nope. What about you?

I have a feeling its leading into something ...

 

[[70521]]

Flare talk pops up quite often on here, seems sensible to do everything practical to not need them in the first place > so ..

• Anyone care to leave a few details of any scary situations where flares really were used in anger?
• What could have been done differently so the flares would not have been needed?

IMHO, all "disaster recovery" type stuff like flares & man overboard rescue etc etc should have money/time spent after spending money/time to do what can realistically be done to try to prevent the disaster happening in the first place.

I have, to alert a RAF Search and Rescue Helicopter to the location of a seriously injured casualty who we needed to get to hospital 'without delay'.

I could go into great detail about the amount of money/time that can, and often is, spent on preventing disasters/accidents as I spent the last five years of my working life as a safety engineer, but to most it is a rather dry subject. Two things you might like to look at:

Swiss Cheese Model; and

ALARP

If you read any of the Marine or Air Accident Investigation Board Reports you will often see the Swiss Cheese Model in action.

 

[veshengro]

One aspect of Parachute Flares that may surprise people, at least white para flares, is how an object viewed from a distance changes form. To explain. A flare igniting at a height suddenly floods an area and target/object with light, if it's over the target ( or party being rescued..I'm guessing). and then the flare drifts with the wind, the target seems to change shape. Depending where the flare ignites the view may be a well lit target but if /when it drifts downwind suddenly the target is just black silhouette changing shape as the flare descends. Man or vehicle targets on a night firing range when lit with para flares really illustrate what I am wittering on about, so I imagine perhaps the same would apply to a MOB or unlit Life Raft in the water?

 

[Refueler]

I am wondering if the Emergency Flare that I have let off a lot - para and hand ... illuminates as much as an artillery spotter flare ?

They are bright of course - but I think more concentrated light and not a floodlight form ............. maybe ??

I know the white Very flares we used were bright - but did not illuminate the sea area under that much ..

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I have recounted this before so to cut a long story short a good friend at his young sons bonfire night party decided to fire of some flares, it was a very windy night and he fired a parachute flare low into the wind it came back overhead very low and landed on a neighbour's wooden garden shed. We all disappeared inside quickly shortly afterwards we heard the fire engine. The following morning my friend said that the shed had burned to the ground.

Yes I have fired hand held and parachute flares but not in distress situations.

 

[Roberto]

These are the most experienced people over here, it might prove difficult to create an environment where they would avoid using them

 

[Refueler]

I have recounted this before so to cut a long story short a good friend at his young sons bonfire night party decided to fire of some flares, it was a very windy night and he fired a parachute flare low into the wind it came back overhead very low and landed on a neighbour's wooden garden shed. We all disappeared inside quickly shortly afterwards we heard the fire engine. The following morning my friend said that the shed had burned to the ground.

Yes I have fired hand held and parachute flares but not in distress situations.

There are stories of thatched cottages being lost to errant flares as well .... not only flares - but fireworks as well.

Para's are designed to be fired vertically to have max burn in the air .... I noted that about half hit sea before burn had completed ...

 

[veshengro]

The only Civvi white para flare I have fired was an old one that I had bought down in Ayamonte on the Guardiana. Not sure of the Country of manufacture, but not UK as per the label anyway. I would say that on that occasion, with that flare, the burn time, height reached and brilliance did not match the Military flares, dozens of which I fired in later years.
Perhaps flare age may have been responsible, but the Ayamonte flare was more 'expensive firework' impression at the time.

 

[GHA]

note the question had nothing to do with flares, but what happened that you need to let one off? Is there a pattern to learn from? Probably not, naively thought it might be worth asking on here to at least have a look at some real world data ....

 

[oldmanofthehills]

I have, to alert a RAF Search and Rescue Helicopter to the location of a seriously injured casualty who we needed to get to hospital 'without delay'.

I could go into great detail about the amount of money/time that can, and often is, spent on preventing disasters/accidents as I spent the last five years of my working life as a safety engineer, but to most it is a rather dry subject. Two things you might like to look at:

Swiss Cheese Model; and

ALARP

If you read any of the Marine or Air Accident Investigation Board Reports you will often see the Swiss Cheese Model in action.

I have not used flares for real but have seen smokes used for real and for practice in mountain rescue situations and very effective they are too.

As a railway systems / signalling engineer we invoke the swiss cheese model. There is always some hole somewhere that disaster potential might crawl through, so the next step is to mitigate the risk by reducing consequences. Belt braces and string plus a further action if possible. Having had a major leak develop half way across the irish sea, I was very glad to have VHF, PLB EPRIB plus FLAREs. Didnt need them just my big auto bilge pump plus big manual pump every half hour. But half way accross a sea is not the time to ponder if the cost of given safety aid is worth it.

 

[KeelsonGraham]

As a former RAF pilot and rescue instructor, I've let off many different types for training and practice. The only ones that didn't feel potentially dangerous were the small pen-type day flares. All the big flares needed care. Their short barrels make it critically important that you look at them to check that they are pointing truly vertical. This is especially true of the big parachute flares. It's all too easy to fail to notice a small twist of your wrist that results in the flare pointing dangerously close to your face, especially when using both hands to initiate firing.

 

[Refueler]

note the question had nothing to do with flares, but what happened that you need to let one off? Is there a pattern to learn from? Probably not, naively thought it might be worth asking on here to at least have a look at some real world data ....

Apologies if my ramblings set a path not intended.

I took your post as a general but with specific points to aim for as well.

As a person who has used them ... would I consider another method ? No in fact I think alternatives such as Laser pointers etc. can be dangerous if not used correctly.

For me - I prefer to use rather than WISH I had used !! If you see my point.

An old Bridge Watch saying ......... If you are thinking about an action - its likely past the point you should have acted ...

 

[RunAgroundHard]

I responded to a red hand held flare from a motor boat, during daylight hours. The boat was quite far away, south of Carsaig Bay, Isle of Mull and I was a bit north of the Garvellachs. I picked up the mayday on VHF, informed the coastguard that we were in the area and headed towards the area that was reported. The position was not given precisely. The CG asked the boat to set off a flare. It was pretty obvious when the hand held was fired where the vessel was. Anyway, the Oban lifeboat passed us and intercepted the stricken boat and we were released. The flare definitely made a difference.

I have set off all the common distress flares at various events and used a white hand held twice, once on fog, once to see on a black night exactly where we were in a bay. I am not so sure the fog one did anything but were were in thick fog with an engine noise from a larger vessel near by that did not respond to any VHF coms. The black night in the bay was quite spectacular, a significant area was illuminated.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

... IMHO, all "disaster recovery" type stuff like flares & man overboard rescue etc etc should have money/time spent after spending money/time to do what can realistically be done to try to prevent the disaster happening in the first place.

That is pretty obvious, is it not? The "disaster recovery type stuff" is used for when those preparations fail, high consequence, low probability events. The classic scenario is person overboard and then getting back to them and not being able to get them onboard and so they die. A bit of time and effort to have a working recovery system would be worth it for that rare situation. It is not different to insuring a home that includes rebuilding costs, one is never likely to use the insurance, but would be glad of it if a home burned down.

There is a school of thought, not to bother with "disaster recovery type stuff" as likely it will never happen anyway.

 

[Refueler]

The Old Insurance Sales bit :

Better to have it and not need it
than
To need it and not have it.

 

[dunedin]

I have been first responder on scene to a distress call in the Inner Sound. But no flares involved - casualty position given by description of location and Lat/Long. Noted description of location was near me so requested repeat of coordinates - put in as waypoint and located casualty. All done by electronic devices - including by the kayak in distress.

 

[Refueler]

I have been first responder on scene to a distress call in the Inner Sound. But no flares involved - casualty position given by description of location and Lat/Long. Noted description of location was near me so requested repeat of coordinates - put in as waypoint and located casualty. All done by electronic devices - including by the kayak in distress.

Thats really good.

But Flares and such are really a last hope item or to direct rescuers in to the rough position. If power fails or you have no radio etc. - I think I'll be glad of that box of flares.

Having let off expired flares on ships - I have no concerns about keeping old as extras. I know that some places - France I believe is one - do not like finding old Pyros on boats even if you have in date ones.

I have a system of spreading cost of these .... replace one or two ... wait a month or two and replace another couple ... stagger the replacement ... that way you don't get hit with a full pack cost ... and you can make your inventory more than just bare coastal ...