scotty123
Well-known member
I seem to remember a test/survey done on rig cutting gear, some years ago & hacksaws with good blades came top.
Who has tested their " cut the rig" tools?
- Thread starter pagoda
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lw395
Well-known member
We carry a hacksaw and spare blades.
If the clevis pins can be punched out, better still...
I happen to know a few people who've had the rig come down.
The most common cause is collision. Another vessel or fixed object catches the rig.
If you're not in mid atlantic, it may be easier to get the mast on board or safely alongside and bring it home.
If the clevis pins can be punched out, better still...
I happen to know a few people who've had the rig come down.
The most common cause is collision. Another vessel or fixed object catches the rig.
If you're not in mid atlantic, it may be easier to get the mast on board or safely alongside and bring it home.
Stemar
Well-known member
Speaking purely as an armchair hero - and praying fervently to stay that way - it does seem to me that anything you count on to cut the rig in an emergency really needs to be operable in one hand. Chances are, if the rig's come down, things are a tad bumpy and, without the mast the motion of the boat is likely to be pretty violent. If you're trying to use both hands on cutting the rig, you're liable to end up entangled in the cutting equipment - bad idea if it's an angle grinder - or over the side - arguably a worse idea.
anoccasionalyachtsman
Well-known member
Quite right. I wonder how many people here have actually lost a mast? I have, and we pulled the pins out tidy the shrouds an backstay away, leaving the bits secured by halyards at the base and the top by the forestay and jib. At that point we could have hacksawed the forestay if the pin was too tight, and then cut the halyards. As it was we got the whole lot back on board. A JUNIOR hacksaw is a breeze to use one handed. Keep plenty of spare blades. I (and others) have said on here that you won't believe how much a dismasted boat rolls even in 20kts, forget heavy cutters.
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Refueler
Well-known member
I have to put mast down to get to harbour for access to sea .... 3 bridges to get past.
The main thing you notice is NOT how far she rolls without mast up - in fact I suggest she does not roll as far due to lack of top-hamper ......... but what you get is a more vicious roll where now you don't have the dampening effect of the mast weight.
Of course if you compare roll when sails are up to the mast down situation - of course the boat will roll more as it no longer has the sails ...
The main thing you notice is NOT how far she rolls without mast up - in fact I suggest she does not roll as far due to lack of top-hamper ......... but what you get is a more vicious roll where now you don't have the dampening effect of the mast weight.
Of course if you compare roll when sails are up to the mast down situation - of course the boat will roll more as it no longer has the sails ...
Norman_E
Well-known member
My boat came equipped with a huge pair of rigging cutters, about 3 foot handles. I have test cut both 8 and 10mm wire by asking a rigger for some old wire to try them on. They cut both but the only way I can do it easily is with one handle on the ground and pressing the other handle down. On a rolling deck I think I would have no chance so I have a good rigid hacksaw frame and these blades Eclipse Flexible High Speed Steel Bi-Metal Hacksaw Blade. 32 tpi; 12'' Pk of 10 687965509382 | eBay
If I had to hacksaw through rigging wire I would do so with the blade against the end of the swage so that I could keep it from sliding up and down the wire whilst starting the cut.
Coarse toothed blades would be useless and only good quality blades like Eclipse, Starrett or possibly Bahco are worth buying.
P.S. I am amazed that a junior hacksaw would so the job as most junior hacksaws have little blade tension and the blades are easily blunted.
If I had to hacksaw through rigging wire I would do so with the blade against the end of the swage so that I could keep it from sliding up and down the wire whilst starting the cut.
Coarse toothed blades would be useless and only good quality blades like Eclipse, Starrett or possibly Bahco are worth buying.
P.S. I am amazed that a junior hacksaw would so the job as most junior hacksaws have little blade tension and the blades are easily blunted.
anoccasionalyachtsman
Well-known member
Bahco make a very nice junior with a tensioner, but I did a complete rerig on 7 and 9mm wire using an ordinary spring frame one. As you say, good blades make all the difference and I buy 50 at a time to make sure I have a sharp one at hand! I think you'd be pleasantly surprised!
coveman
Active member
I'm sure they will make a great job of cutting stays etc - the one problem I have with them is that it is another thing to remember to keep at full charge, in the unlikely event that you would use it. If you are using something like this every day it is likely that you remember to charge it, but if its left on board and forgotten about the chances are the one time you need it the battery will be flat.
scotty123
Well-known member
They roll more, without a mast, than with, even on flat water its horrendous.
LadyInBed
Well-known member
I tried that, but as I described above, I found that the easiest way was to brace one handle against my chest and pull the other handle in.
I think I am right in saying that more pressure can be applied using a 'bear hug' than by pushing.
Daydream believer
Well-known member
I cannot lift my mast on dry land, Let alone on a heaving yacht at sea with boom & rigging attached, all complete with 650 ft2 of soggy sail & mast & boom full of water
Even with a small boat one is going to have a job separating the sails from the mast plus sorting wires & ropes enough to get the mast alongside.
I have broken the mast on my dad's Silouhette ( he was none too pleased!!) & a couple of my Hornet masts in my teenage years. It is amazing how much rigging suddenly appears to tangle one in seconds that one never realised was there.
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GHA
Well-known member
Definitely you can cut easier with one handle on the ground then bounce up and down on the other handle. Had perfect diagonal handle sized bruising before the from one handle on the chest cutting catinarys in the air, back when we wos young.
burgundyben
Well-known member
I have always thought that knocking out clevis pins to be easiest. Ensure the right hand tools are on-board to deal with the split pins. Decent weight hammer and punches.
At Westerley Sea School in the 80's every boat had bolt croppers on-board. They were there for the purpose of cutting rigging and wholly inadequate for doing it.
lw395
Well-known member
I do know a couple of people who have brought broken masts home, including one fair sized boat.
I assume it depends what fails. When someone sails off with your backstay, the bulk of the rig may land on the deck.
There are winches available.
I think people would prefer we took our rubbish home, where possible. Especially in shallow water where people may be dredging or trawling.
Daydream believer
Well-known member
Surely the obvious thing is to tie a bunch of fenders to a halyard or mainsheet or some rope that may be long enough to enable the rig to be picked up by a third party. I am sure that the RNLI would go & secure a suitably marked rig if in shallow coastal waters.
In many cases a yacht would put out a pan pan any way if sailing in coastal areas. The skipper does have a duty to ensure the safety of the crew. Then the RNLI may well attend as a precaution.
Or do forumites think that would be wrong?
anoccasionalyachtsman
Well-known member
As ever in sailing, it all depends. We were a racing crew and got it all onboard easily and were motoring back to Hamble before the lifeboat appeared. (We hadn't called for any help). At the other extreme you might want to leave it all hanging by the fore or backstay to act as a drogue for a while? Mid ocean you'd probably then want as much back as poss to make something useful, but I can imagine wanting to get rid of it in other circumstances.
lw395
Well-known member
I think you have to do what ever seems right or necessary on the day.
I only report what I know, that some people manage to come home with the right only semi-detached.
As I said, it's different inshore than far offshore.
It seems to be one of those 'textbook' things, you need to be able to cut the rig away, but very few people ever need to do so, and I don't think that, in the unlikely event of the rig coming down, it will always be the only or correct choice, it's just the choice everyone has heard of because various 'rules' want us to carry the gear to take that action.
I think if I could save the boom, sails, furling gear etc, without risking hull damage or injury, I would try to do so.
I'd ask for help before slashing away at everything.
I think it's like a lot of other potential calamities, you can over plan for the eventuality and your plan may not survive sight of the enemy.
But we carry big and small hacksaws with plenty of blades, and a big pair of bolt croppers.
By the way, most junior hacksaw blades seem to be made out of cheesemetal. Get some decent ones like Neill or Disston.
Roberto
Well-known member
+1
Assuming single personal experiences have an overall statistic value it's...hmm, by definition not statistically significant, surely not enough to give lessons or criticize different ways of dealing with the same incident, especially when these other ways have been at least as successful.
If a forum does not provide a statistically significant sample, I'd advise to look for more real life experiences before extrapolating personal experiences, real life dismasting, cutting shrouds etc etc there are plenty to make one's opinion.
Boathook
Well-known member
pagoda
Active member
Thanks for all the response. I think the main point of my post was to get folk thinking about the problem, ideally trying out their planned methods on some scrap rigging- wire or bottle screws or whatever. Knocking out various clevis pins sounds the easiest option. Some would be very simple and under no load. Others would probably be under huge loads.
I think the "recover the rig" argument is very dependent upon proximity to land- or assistance , weather and how many crew you have on board. Two up, well offshore with bad weather I would think of cutting it loose if need be. It takes 3 or 4 bods to move it on land in a quiet yard....
It is NOT common to lose masts, but it has and will happen again somewhere. Think about how you might cope?
I think the "recover the rig" argument is very dependent upon proximity to land- or assistance , weather and how many crew you have on board. Two up, well offshore with bad weather I would think of cutting it loose if need be. It takes 3 or 4 bods to move it on land in a quiet yard....
It is NOT common to lose masts, but it has and will happen again somewhere. Think about how you might cope?