Which year would you say this boat is?

[BGW]

1) Speed read the rest...

2) Not immaterial as any boat will depreciate in time in much the same way as car does (albeit much slower depreciation with a boat).

So a boat will depreciate according to it's condition and it's age. Both are relevent.

I don't understand no. 1) in your reply.
With regard to 2) I am fully aware that new boats depreciate with age, but as the boat gets older the condition IMHO is much more relevant.
As I stated in my earlier post, I would not pay more for a boat that is identical to a 1 year older, cheaper one, if other than the age they were identical.

If you would rather pay more to get a newer boat, then that's fine, it's your money and you are free to spend it on what you want.
I am not stating law - just my opinion.

I prefer to own an older boat that is in good condition and meets my needs rather than a newer boat that would not, given the amount I have to spend.

I do not have the luxury of unlimited funds for my hobby, and am happy with what I have.

I do not need 'labels' to enjoy what I have.

 

[DavidJ]

Mike
I've just had a look at my Sealine Builders Certificate ( I guess there is no common format)
It has
Serial Number GB-*********L102
Model Year 2002

load of specs and stuff

and the Directors signatures with a 14.02.02 date

It would have been build during the latter part of 2001 but model year 2002 it is!

I think it's a shame that they put 2001 build year because when you sell you will have to be up front about it before the cash is handed over. I'm with you on the date issue, so I guess the folk who are not discerning about year, only condition would pay the same if it was yr 2000 or 1999 or 1998......don't think so!

When you sell I think you could safely use the term 'model year 2002'

 

[jfm]

I see what you mean re. the CFR text, but what's the point in specifying the timeframe of model year, if not to link it with the building?
Following your train of thought, a builder could sell already now an A011 hull...
And if so, would it be correct to sell such boat as a 2011 in the future?

To the thread in general: lots of people are saying things to the effect "the year doesn't matter; what's important with a 2nd hand boat is the condition". Deleted User knows that, but it's just not the question he is asking.

To MapisM ref the above: yes, I thought exactly the same as I read those rules. They didn't actually specify any significance to "model year", nor specify in what circumstances a boat would meet/not meet the rules for being called (say) a "2009 model year". All a bit strange. But you cannot use that curious drafting to justify reading into the rules a positive mandate that a boat descrbed as 2009 model year must be physically built DURING the 2009 model year (ie August 2008 or later).

And I repeat, my boat IS be-HINed "E809", which is what you'd expect for a boat that is roughly 3 months in build and was the first (of 10) 2009 model year boats that they built, and was aiming for August or September 08 delivery

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Yes I'm sure. You are reading into those rules (which of course apply in USA only) a prohibition that isn't actually there in the text. Those rules specify that the 2009 model year runs from Aug 08 to Aug 09, but they do NOT prohibit the physical building of a 2009 model year boat prior to August 2008. Thus it is perfectly in compliance with those rules for a boat to be built as mine was: hull mould E8 = May 2008; fit out June-July-Aug 2008; launch September 08, decription of boat "2009 Model Year". It is not correct to say (as Imperial One suggested) that a boat may only be sold as "year n" if its hull is moulded August n-1 or later

Ferretti don't seem to use a HIN that denotes mould date. The full HIN is ITFER53F59K102

ITFER is obviously the builder
53 is model number
F59 is the build no (ie hull no 59)
K1 is the date of certification (November 2001)
02 is the model year

So, from the certification date, you could surmise that it is unlikely that the boat was sold and used during 2001 so I would feel justified calling it a 2002 boat, irrespective of model years

Thanks to gjgm for the link

 

[Nautibusiness]

I don't understand no. 1) in your reply.
With regard to 2) I am fully aware that new boats depreciate with age, but as the boat gets older the condition IMHO is much more relevant.
As I stated in my earlier post, I would not pay more for a boat that is identical to a 1 year older, cheaper one, if other than the age they were identical.

If you would rather pay more to get a newer boat, then that's fine, it's your money and you are free to spend it on what you want.
I am not stating law - just my opinion.

I prefer to own an older boat that is in good condition and meets my needs rather than a newer boat that would not, given the amount I have to spend.

I do not have the luxury of unlimited funds for my hobby, and am happy with what I have.

I do not need 'labels' to enjoy what I have.

1) Was answering your question "(did you read my previous posts?)".
Not in detail, I spead read them.

The rest of your post was a little bit going in two directions.
You started saying that you wouldn't pay more for the newer of two identical boats in the same condition.
If they were identical (and that is the key word) then you almost certainly would have no choice but to pay more for the newer one. If you wangled it for the same price or cheaper then you have done very well or have a rather naive seller.
If you had a 59 plate BMW530 with 30K on the clock next to a 58 plate BMW with 30K on the clock and all other items exactly the same then the 59 plate will command a premium.
It's just the way it is.

The remainder of your post then goes on to discuss different boats with different characteristics and conditions.
Well of course, if the older boat (or car) is in better condition then it is likely to command a premium over the slightly newer one. Again, it's not rocket science.

Not sure anyone is mentioning labels, just describing what the last part of the hull number means... try not to get so uptight, it's almost like you are getting wound up by something that really shouldn't worry you.
And as for being able to afford our hobby, I can asure you that I am probably the least affluent of many of us on this forum!

Chill out... The explanation I gave originally was nothing more than explaining how the last part of the hull number worked, I wasn't picking fault or picking on anyone apart from the last letter and following three digits in the HIN or CIN as it is now known.

 

[mjf]

Jezz - this is not unlike receiving March's 2010 MB&Y in January 2010 (that was written in 2009!)

;-)

 

[Nautibusiness]

Jezz - this is not unlike receiving March's 2010 MB&Y in January 2010 (that was written in 2009!)

;-)

Very good analogy.

The content is going to be the same and as long as it is in it's cellophane sleeve it will be in pristine condition.
If not in it's sleeve it may have been thumbed through a little and it's just possible something may have changed since they wrote the articles.

But, you are still receiving a March 2010 edition!

 

[BGW]

......

I'm chilled... I live in Ireland now, that's what we do....
I guess what I was trying to say (perhaps I wasn't very clear), was that given the choice I would choose the older, cheaper one if it was in the same condition because the 'year' does not make any difference to me.
The 'label' comment purely referred to the 'year', as sometimes it seems to hold more 'value' than the boat's condition.
Anyway, I feel I have used my quota of the OP's post now.

 

[Nautibusiness]

I'm chilled... I live in Ireland now, that's what we do....
I guess what I was trying to say (perhaps I wasn't very clear), was that given the choice I would choose the older, cheaper one if it was in the same condition because the 'year' does not make any difference to me.
The 'label' comment purely referred to the 'year', as sometimes it seems to hold more 'value' than the boat's condition.
Anyway, I feel I have used my quota of the OP's post now.

lol!
I am sure they don't mind!
Get it off your chest, put your feet up and tell us all about it!

 

[MapisM]

Ferretti don't seem to use a HIN that denotes mould date. The full HIN is ITFER53F59K102

ITFER is obviously the builder
53 is model number
F59 is the build no (ie hull no 59)
K1 is the date of certification (November 2001)
02 is the model year

So, from the certification date, you could surmise that it is unlikely that the boat was sold and used during 2001 so I would feel justified calling it a 2002 boat, irrespective of model years

Mmm... are you saying that they marked the HIN as K1 because the Builder's Certification was issued in November 2001?
I do think it's actually the other way round, and the BC was dated according to the HIN, rather than the moment when it was issued.
Anyway, I fully agree with your conclusions: as I said, it's common practice to consider just the MY, but even more so with a "K" boat!

 

[volvopaul]

A good friend of mine recently came across this, he paid his deposit to a well known builder who he respected, had his part ex surveyed by the dealer, he then spent 1300 on survey lifts and sea trial, all the time he was asking for the paperwork , when it eventually came the boat was advertised a year newer but the build cert stated it was a year older.

More to the point the same dealer/ builder had the same boat at the same advertised for 175k less, so he asked for his deposit back, or drop the price accordingley.

So IMHO a year makes a big difference.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Mmm... are you saying that they marked the HIN as K1 because the Builder's Certification was issued in November 2001?
I do think it's actually the other way round, and the BC was dated according to the HIN, rather than the moment when it was issued.
Anyway, I fully agree with your conclusions: as I said, it's common practice to consider just the MY, but even more so with a "K" boat!

Well according to gjgm's link here http://www.boattitleanswers.com/?p=5#more-5 K1 is the date of certification which is Nov 01 which, according to convention, means that the boat falls in model year 02 so the broker seems justified in calling it an 02 boat. To me though, a boat completed in 01 is an 01 boat, but then I'm probable naive

 

[BGW]

A good friend of mine recently came across this, he paid his deposit to a well known builder who he respected, had his part ex surveyed by the dealer, he then spent 1300 on survey lifts and sea trial, all the time he was asking for the paperwork , when it eventually came the boat was advertised a year newer but the build cert stated it was a year older.

More to the point the same dealer/ builder had the same boat at the same advertised for 175k less, so he asked for his deposit back, or drop the price accordingley.

So IMHO a year makes a big difference.

So he is about to walk away from a perfectly good boat, that he liked, where the condition has not changed, the specifications have not changed, the engine hours have not changed and there is no more wear and tear.
The only difference is a label attached to it that is one digit lower than he thought it would be.
I don't condone the sellers/dealers actions, but if he was happy with the boat and it's price before, what's changed? (and I don't mean the 'being misled' bit here)
Sure, as I said previously if you can get it for a cheaper price great, but the boat is no different to when he first looked at it, and I can't see why the value should have suddenly dropped? After all, it seems this type of labelling is common practice, and it seems to be done purely to maximise 'perceived' value from people that worry about it.

Given that the boat is still identical to when he first saw it, how much is a single year digit on the hull worth? - And why does that non physical attribute devalue all of the (unchanged) physical attributes that the boat is made up from?

I know that newer things attract a higher price than older things (well, unless we are talking antiques or collectibles), but why?
Why is so much value placed on the age rather than the condition?
Lets keep things in perspective - we are talking a few months - not a decade.

I buy things for what they can do for me, and the age does nothing.

 

[Kipper]

Surely what is important is Model year and date of comissioning. My Chap was built in US in 01 shipped to UK had engines put in then launched and Comissioned easter 2002. The warranties kicked in at that point so I always refered to it as 2002 boat. It was brand new when comissioned.

 

[John100156]

OK I have not read all of the threads above, but I was in exactly the same position with my Targa 34. The invoice was December 2005 when the boat was launched but the HIN last two digits was 06.

The way it was described to me when I bought the boat was a 2006 Model and hence a 2006 boat.

However, when I advertised the boat with one Fairline broker and discussed this, he said he would prefer to advertise the boat as 2005 and state that it was a 2006 model.

I believe it did affect the final sale price.

So I suppose if I were buying it has to be a 2001 boat but if selling it must be a 2002 boat!

Will now go back and read all the threads!

 

[ari]

I am looking at buying a boat which has been described in all the sales particulars as a 2002 boat. I have just received a copy of the builder's certificate which gives a date of build as 2001. When I questioned this with the broker, he pointed to the fact that the actual HIN (Hull Identification No) ended in 02 and, therefore, by convention within the industry, the boat could be described as a 2002 boat, particularly since the boat wasn't sold and launched until the 2002 season.
Is he right? My only concern is that when I come to sell the boat, I can describe it as a 2002 boat obviously to maximise it's value

The answer to your question is in your question.

The boat was very clearly built (completed) 2001.

If it had lain in the mould or whatever and been finished in 2002 it'd have had a builder certificate showing built 2002.

What you have there, is a 2001 boat.

 

[mjf]

I assume that the Builders Cert is the same date as the original bill of sale from the builder to dealer or distrubutor?

Is it?

 

[Nick_H]

So he is about to walk away from a perfectly good boat, that he liked, where the condition has not changed, the specifications have not changed, the engine hours have not changed and there is no more wear and tear.
The only difference is a label attached to it that is one digit lower than he thought it would be

That's not the only difference, it will also be worth less when he comes to sell it ('cos people pay more for newer things, however daft you think that might be)

I guess it comes down to what's important to you. The "model year" is a marketing term which describes the level of equipment, ancilliaries, furnishings etc. the boat will have fitted, just like a new model year on a car may have a new cup holder or free sat nav. They could equally use letters of the alphabet, or names of well known shrubs.

The year of manufacture is the calendar year in which the boat was built, although as I mentioned above, that depends at what stage you deem the boat to be "built". If you use the date the engines are fitted for example, then you'll have boats in December waiting till January to have the engines installed, which isn't very efficient for the builders, so I guess they like to focus on model year as it gives them more flexibility.

 

[ari]

I assume that the Builders Cert is the same date as the original bill of sale from the builder to dealer or distrubutor?

Is it?

The Build Certificate is the Bill of Sale to the dealer, or sometimes direct to the first owner (if it's a small builder that sells direct for instance).

 

[ari]

I know that newer things attract a higher price than older things (well, unless we are talking antiques or collectibles), but why?

Because they are newer.