Which sailboat for canals AND coastal cruising?

[kusirulesthewaves]

Hi all, we are new to the forum so hope this post is in the correct place! We currently own a 29 ft westerly fin keel which is great for coastal cruising and channel hopping. However, we would really like to cross France via the inland waterways to the med and spend some months cruising there. We have three children so need a comfortable family boat. Any advice on which boats might fit the bill - does such a versatile boat even exist without lots of compromise on performance etc ?? Thanks!

 

[Tranona]

The constraints are mainly draft. 1.6m for most of the main system and 1.4m for Canal du Midi. Airdraft is also an issue although not usually for sailing boats of a size that meets the water draft. So that effectively limits you to a sub 40', or even 38' boat simply because (apart from catamarans) there are few sailing boats bigger than that which have the necessary draft. Add to that very few "modern" boats above 34' have drafts below 1.6m, except those with lifting keels. However, I have just sold one of the few bigger, modern boats (a Bavaria 37) which had a 1.4m draft!

So, the widest choice is in the older style boats, such as Moodys and Westerlies in the mid 30's' which often do have shallower draft, or many older motorsailers. Also worth considering is ease of dropping and carrying the mast. Facilities at either end are there to physically do it, but some boats have very long masts giving overhang. There are services available to transport masts rather than taking with you.

There is masses of information available - several books, official publications, blogs etc on cruising the French canals.

Boat choice is very personal, and you need to bear in mind what you are going to do with the boat afterwards. For example if you want to then keep it in the Med, many UK boats are less than suitable for hot weather living, or at least need a lot of extra gear. As ever you will have to compromise, so you need to read up on what others do, and particularly if you are planning to stay in the Med, take a charter holiday so you experience living on a boat in hot climates! As above, our compromise was the Bavaria - super boat for the Med (where we kept it for 9 years), very spacious for living on (although like any boat of that size would be a bit tight for your size family!), but not the best sailing boat for UK conditions with its shallow draft.

 

[kusirulesthewaves]

Thanks Tranona that's really helpful. We are hoping to stay in the med for a few months once we get there. Someone suggested a southerly 110 with it's lifting keel, another suggested motor boat down and pick up a cheap yacht when we get there! Lots of options.... Not planning to leave for a few years until our youngest is about 5, so plenty of time to think about it at least!

 

[TQA]

In your position I would look at the lift keel sailboats around. Most will draw less than a meter with the keel up.

Something like a Southerly 42 will do nicely.

The French produce some lift keel boats as well.

 

[Tranona]

In your position I would look at the lift keel sailboats around. Most will draw less than a meter with the keel up.

Something like a Southerly 42 will do nicely.

The French produce some lift keel boats as well.

The problem with those boats is that there are very few around and hideously expensive - nor are they particularly good boats under power in the canals with the keel up. Lift keel boats that have a stub keel like some of the Jenneaus and Beneteaus or older Feelings are better, but again rare beasts in the UK, so not much choice.

 

[FullCircle]

I have a Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 35 lift keel which draws 1.2m and I sail with the keel up most of the time.
Downside is twin rudders make marina manoeuvres interesting.

 

[Tranona]

Downside is twin rudders make marina manoeuvres interesting.

Likely to be interesting in the canals where some shallow very quickly at the sides and the rudders may be running in mud!

 

[TQA]

The problem with those boats is that there are very few around and hideously expensive - nor are they particularly good boats under power in the canals with the keel up. Lift keel boats that have a stub keel like some of the Jenneaus and Beneteaus or older Feelings are better, but again rare beasts in the UK, so not much choice.

The OP gives no hint as to budget. A new Southerly would do the job but there are quite a few used OVNIs about at more reasonable prices. Hence my French reference. Jimmy Cornel thinks highly of his OVNI.

 

[Lyndsey Doyle]

An interesting question, may I suggest a totally different approach?
How about considering a sailing barge such as tjalk?
Lots of room for a growing family, plenty of deck space, hinged mast, designed for carrying cargo on inland waterways and the North Sea alike.
Not by any means boring boats to sail, with gaff cutter rigs and leeboards there should be plenty to occupy keen sailors.
Yes you will spend an extra day or three, waiting in harbour for ideal conditions, such as a settled high, before making a sea crossing, so what? you have the space to do your thing, unlike a 'yacht' where your entire life is drastically compromised, just so the vessel is seaworthy enough to handle an occasional rough sea passage.
You will be able to take the ground on the reinforced flat bottom, and that type of boat is available in a huge range of sizes and designs, materials, scantlings and prices. You will probably be saying au revoir to polyester.
Have a think about it. Best wishes LD

 

[Tranona]

The OP gives no hint as to budget. A new Southerly would do the job but there are quite a few used OVNIs about at more reasonable prices. Hence my French reference. Jimmy Cornel thinks highly of his OVNI.

Would guess if he currently owns a Westerly Konsort (value about £15k), the £300k for a Southerly might be a stretch! No new Southerleys anyway now as they went bust. However it is not a good boat for the canals, with twin rudders that would be a liability in the shallow edges of the canals. Of course Jimmy Cornell liked his Ovni - but he used it for bluewater sailing (for which it was designed) not trundling through the canals. Well over £150k for even the cheapest one of the size the OP would need for 5 people to liveaboard. Plenty of much more suitable boats available for far less money than those exotics.

 

[chinita]

No new Southerleys anyway now as they went bust. However it is not a good boat for the canals, with twin rudders that would be a liability in the shallow edges of the canals.

Didn't Grehan manage with his Southerly for a number of years?

 

[vyv_cox]

We did Canal du Midi in our Sadler34 drawing 1.4 metres, fin keel. Mostly there were no problems although we touched the bottom a few times. Getting the boat to the side of the canal was sometimes impossible but overcome with a passerelle over the side.

 

[Tranona]

Didn't Grehan manage with his Southerly for a number of years?

Yes. That is a possibility. However his 115 was a very different boat from the 42 that has been suggested. Substantial skeg with protected prop and central rudder.

 

[boatmike]

Slightly off subject but you could ask why a sailboat at all? There are plenty of shallow draught semi-displacement motor cruisers around that would be perfectly capable of offshore med cruising without all the hassle of putting masts up and down etc..... Lots of the time in the med you will be motoring anyway...

 

[charles_reed]

A power-boat is probably the most sensible choice for the OP.
Shallow draft, plenty of power to go upstream the Rhone, and avoid the windless, Ionian summer..

My boat draws about 750mm keel up and 1.9m keel down - it has a 13.78m tall mast and I came the scenic route to the Med, rather than trying the canals.

 

[[3889]]

Gemini 105 MC cat? I once harboured a similar lar ambition and this was my choice. Narrow beam (4m?), centreboards, steerable leg or twin engines. Not an ideal sea boat but one has crossed the Atlantic.

 

[Moonbeam]

As already mentioned, twin rudder frenchy lift keelers might drag a bit here and there in the canals, but here is one for sale in the UK http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/boats/s26215/s26215.htm

We are pondering a similar question, but for some point in the future, so just window shopping for now.... so much fun

 

[syneraida]

I would definitely go for a lifting keel, but have a look at some of the French designs, they're way ahead of us (in the UK) when it comes to lifting keels. You may be looking for something a little less racy, but the below should give you an idea of what you could get (not sure on air draft) and with a draft of 1.3 meters with the keel up you should be able to go pretty much anywhere.

http://www.nauticexpo.com/prod/atlantic/product-65780-481596.html

 

[Tranona]

I would definitely go for a lifting keel, but have a look at some of the French designs, they're way ahead of us (in the UK) when it comes to lifting keels. You may be looking for something a little less racy, but the below should give you an idea of what you could get (not sure on air draft) and with a draft of 1.3 meters with the keel up you should be able to go pretty much anywhere.

http://www.nauticexpo.com/prod/atlantic/product-65780-481596.html

That boat also has twin rudders which would be impractical in the canals, particularly the narrower ones where the sides are very shallow. Those boats are designed for bluewater sailing and the shallow draft is for sailing in shallow parts of the world like the Bahamas - plus being able to lift the board up on long downwind legs. Not really suitable (even if one could afford one0 for trundling down the canals.

 

[FullCircle]

I'll let you know soon!