Colregs, big mobo/small sailboat, on Hamble and similar

[Poignard]

[...]

15 knot the minimum manoeuvring speed is sheer baloney.

[...]

It is.

Any ship that could not manouver at less than 15knots would be prohibited from using unaided the Suez Canal, the Panama Canal, the Kiel Canal, the St Lawrence Seaway, et al.


Of the various bulk carriers, tankers, general cargo vessels I served few, if any, would have been capable of attaining 15 knots.

 

[winch2]

open waters

Blimey thght this had died, anyway.
I beg ur pardon but I thght we were talking about the Solent. If we are and apologies if we're not, The Solent in my book is not open waters. It has so many hazards to the unsuspecting bloke in a boat and significant currents within that small arena that is deserves a ton of respect.

Do sailing yachts have any rights at all over ships? Well. In my "50 years" out there, getting outta there flippin way has served me extremely well indeed. However as Im sure most here will agree this has more to do with common sense than any regs.

So yes I'll move over for the 100 mtr coaster with limited room but what about the 20 mtr gin palace up on the plane and coming straight at me? Sometimes being out there is just plain difficult and you have to assess each situation by its individual merits.. and not by what the regs say.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Blimey thght this had died, anyway.
I beg ur pardon but I thght we were talking about the Solent. If we are and apologies if we're not, The Solent in my book is not open waters. It has so many hazards to the unsuspecting bloke in a boat and significant currents within that small arena that is deserves a ton of respect.

Do sailing yachts have any rights at all over ships? Well. In my "50 years" out there, getting outta there flippin way has served me extremely well indeed. However as Im sure most here will agree this has more to do with common sense than any regs.

So yes I'll move over for the 100 mtr coaster with limited room but what about the 20 mtr gin palace up on the plane and coming straight at me? Sometimes being out there is just plain difficult and you have to assess each situation by its individual merits.. and not by what the regs say.

It was your mentioning that you scanned the horizon that made me think you’d moved on to open water situations. The Solent and restricted waters have different rules.

Anyway, it sounds as though (although you’ve avoided hitting anything or being hit) you may have irritated a lot of ships. It was more difficult to see what was happening pre AIS but nowadays its invariably very clear that ships ARE giving way to sailboats with small alterations of course.

Don’t make your own rules up but May I humbly suggest everyone should learn and apply IRPCS. It’s rarely confusing.

 

[capnsensible]

Blimey thght this had died, anyway.
I beg ur pardon but I thght we were talking about the Solent. If we are and apologies if we're not, The Solent in my book is not open waters. It has so many hazards to the unsuspecting bloke in a boat and significant currents within that small arena that is deserves a ton of respect.

Do sailing yachts have any rights at all over ships? Well. In my "50 years" out there, getting outta there flippin way has served me extremely well indeed. However as Im sure most here will agree this has more to do with common sense than any regs.

So yes I'll move over for the 100 mtr coaster with limited room but what about the 20 mtr gin palace up on the plane and coming straight at me? Sometimes being out there is just plain difficult and you have to assess each situation by its individual merits.. and not by what the regs say.

 

[winch2]

you may have irritated a lot of ships

Id appreciate it if you tell me how you judge the size and length of approaching "ships" so you know which ones to take action over, or not.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Id appreciate it if you tell me how you judge the size and length of approaching "ships" so you know which ones to take action over, or not.

In open waters IRPCS makes no reference to size of vessel.

 

[oldbloke]

From my experiences in the solent, if a big(ish) ship thinks that you are in the bit of water that he wants to be in, he will let you know in no uncertain terms. And in the solent you don't have to move far to get out of the way. It may be squeaky bum time but 50 metres or less is a miss

 

[Biggles Wader]

It is.

Any ship that could not manouver at less than 15knots would be prohibited from using unaided the Suez Canal, the Panama Canal, the Kiel Canal, the St Lawrence Seaway, et al.


Of the various bulk carriers, tankers, general cargo vessels I served few, if any, would have been capable of attaining 15 knots.

I sailed on more than one big ship that could not achieve 15 knots flat out with a following wind. Steerage way was about 3-4 knots, less if we had bit of room to swing. Didn't the Pride of Bilbao discover something about the colregs around the South Island?

Quite so. I think we achieved over 15 knots off Brest once only to find that became less than 5 when the tide turned. Racing the P&O cargo liners for a berth in Auckland always resulted in disappointment.

 

[john_morris_uk]

From my experiences in the solent, if a big(ish) ship thinks that you are in the bit of water that he wants to be in, he will let you know in no uncertain terms. And in the solent you don't have to move far to get out of the way. It may be squeaky bum time but 50 metres or less is a miss

That’s certainly true for the Solent but we are now talking about open water.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

From my experiences in the solent, if a big(ish) ship thinks that you are in the bit of water that he wants to be in, he will let you know in no uncertain terms. And in the solent you don't have to move far to get out of the way. It may be squeaky bum time but 50 metres or less is a miss

That is a given. They’re at work, we are playing. I’m 100% happy to stay out of their way, but need to be given the opportunity, not estimate exactly where, in a 2 mile wide bit of water he might arrive, with an approach speed similar to a planing gin palace. He wasn’t holding a straight course to make it easy. The channel isn’t straight anyway. I just felt his speed was excessive, given it was acSaturday afternoon, the water full of leisure craft. We had to feather up to about 25 deg true wind and all but stop to let him by. I don’t expect him to realise that no ensign and a numeral 1 pennant has significance, nor give me extra consideration for that. Just bloody minded and inconsiderate anyway. We still won, so b*******r him.

 

[requiem]

A convenient way to think of Rule 9 is that it treats narrow channels like stretches of highway ("keep to the proper side, and don't enter or cross until it's clear".) In contrast the other rules treat encounters in open water more akin to road junctions, only with stand-on / give-way status in place of traffic signals.

I.e. if you aren't keeping as much to starboard as is practicable when proceeding along the channel, then you should avoid creating a crossing situation with those who are.

 

[Stemar]

Deleted

 

[winch2]

Just bloody minded and inconsiderate anyway

Im sorry but that statement is wrong. The very last thing the skipper of any sizeable commercial ship wants is a fracas with anyone. Have you been on the bridge of a ship in a busy restricted water way? Not trying to start another bun fight but I have, (work related) including The Island Cat on a busy bank hoiliday w/e and its a real eye opener and just a little bit terrifying.
' We' the leisure sailor are just annoying dots without any registered passage plan or any indication of what we're actually up to. The ship cant wind it's way around your boat, then my boat, and then that other boat thats coming into view. He has to go where he wants and we just have to put up with it. In fact if you say he did change his course then maybe he was trying to oblige but I would never expect it to be the norm.....

 

[oldbloke]

I have never piloted a ship, I have however driven cars down country lanes. When you meet pedestrians what you want is for them to get out of the way, what you really don't want is for them to scatter in different directions.

 

[Stemar]

I have never piloted a ship, I have however driven cars down country lanes. When you meet pedestrians what you want is for them to get out of the way, what you really don't want is for them to scatter in different directions.

+1

The most important thing is to be predictable.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Im sorry but that statement is wrong. The very last thing the skipper of any sizeable commercial ship wants is a fracas with anyone. Have you been on the bridge of a ship in a busy restricted water way? Not trying to start another bun fight but I have, (work related) including The Island Cat on a busy bank hoiliday w/e and its a real eye opener and just a little bit terrifying.
' We' the leisure sailor are just annoying dots without any registered passage plan or any indication of what we're actually up to. The ship cant wind it's way around your boat, then my boat, and then that other boat thats coming into view. He has to go where he wants and we just have to put up with it. In fact if you say he did change his course then maybe he was trying to oblige but I would never expect it to be the norm.....

It is not restricted, but it is busy. And barging through a busy section of the solent at speed and expecting slower craft not to be in your only partially predictable path is inconsiderate to the point of being unseamanlike.

 

[finestgreen]

Between small yachts (and I include the OP in this) the times rule 9 will be in play is practically zero. I cannot think of any time in a small vessel I have been severely restricted in deviating from my course to the extent where I would put myself at risk of collision.

There's nothing in rule 9 about being severely restricted in deviating from your course.

 

[winch2]

It is not restricted, but it is busy. And barging through a busy section of the solent at speed and expecting slower craft not to be in your only partially predictable path is inconsiderate to the point of being unseamanlike.

In my experience the trick is to know and understand where he "Wont" be going. A beach, a small inlet.. shallow ground etc. For instance. I know I can be coming out of say, Fishbourne Creek to the end of the markers and a bit beyond then turn left to Cowes and I know the coaster/small ship coming up the Solent is absolutely not going to turn onto me....but if he did then that would be a whole nother level of criminality which is another matter entirely.

 

[Mark-1]

Finally got around to consulting my 40yo copy of Cockroft on the definition of narrow channel. Not massively helpful.